Starter Feed with Antibiotics

[K0k0shka]

Where would you even get chick starter with antibiotics? I've never seen it in any feed store targeted at the general public - big chain or local. This is something mass producers do to cut corners on having crappy living conditions for their overcrowded birds. It's not something that backyard chicken owners like us need to be concerned about.

 

[LaFleche]

Where would you even get chick starter with antibiotics? I've never seen it in any feed store targeted at the general public - big chain or local. This is something mass producers do to cut corners on having crappy living conditions for their overcrowded birds. It's not something that backyard chicken owners like us need to be concerned about.

Many years ago they sold it here in Germany and I can tell you, it reeked through the packaging.

I don't know if they still sell it, as I raise my chickens all organic.

 

[LaFleche]

Some info regarding the effects of thiamin deficiency:
Quote: "

Thiamine Deficiency​

Polyneuritis in birds represents the later stages of a thiamine deficiency, probably caused by buildup of the intermediates of carbohydrate metabolism. Because the brain’s immediate source of energy results from the degradation of glucose, it depends on biochemical reactions involving thiamine. In the initial stages of deficiency, lethargy and head tremors may be noted. A marked decrease in appetite is seen in birds fed a thiamine-deficient diet. Poultry are also susceptible to neuromuscular problems, resulting in impaired digestion, general weakness, star-gazing, and frequent convulsions."

More: https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...-in-poultry?query=thiamin deficiency#v3348044

 

[MysteryChicken]

Some info regarding the effects of thiamin deficiency:
Quote: "

Thiamine Deficiency​

Polyneuritis in birds represents the later stages of a thiamine deficiency, probably caused by buildup of the intermediates of carbohydrate metabolism. Because the brain’s immediate source of energy results from the degradation of glucose, it depends on biochemical reactions involving thiamine. In the initial stages of deficiency, lethargy and head tremors may be noted. A marked decrease in appetite is seen in birds fed a thiamine-deficient diet. Poultry are also susceptible to neuromuscular problems, resulting in impaired digestion, general weakness, star-gazing, and frequent convulsions."

More: https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/nutrition-and-management-poultry/vitamin-deficiencies-in-poultry?query=thiamin deficiency#v3348044

Sounds like what my 3 week old chick from last year died from.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Good sources of B1 (Thiamine) include oats, seeds, soybeans, and peas - so if your birds free range an appropriate pasture, they are likely getting plenty of bonus B1. That's the good news.

The bad news is that it also renders the Amprolium ineffective - but by the time most move their incubated birds through the brooder, to the grow out pen, and then integrate with the free range adults, its had a chance to do what its supposed to (bolster the chicks till they develop an immune response of their own, keeping the cocci under control until their own gut is able to do so), and there is less concern with polyneuritis developing in the flock if you are forced by circumstances to use medicated feed all the time.

Of course, that's not true for other management methods.

Its a system, all the parts need to work together.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Never said the medicated food have antibiotics, I said that chicks can survive without it as they did for so long time. Personally I'm not fond of vitamins either for example, we just don't use these things and we are here, so as our chickens.

I agree with some of what you've said. You are correct that many (most?) chicks/chickens survive just fine without being raised consuming medicated feed, as they have throughout the centuries. But. There are also Countless threads in the Emergencies and Disease forum re people treating for coccidiosis. The Corid medication is an added expense, & treatment requires an extended period of days. Worse, many chicks & some adults are too sick before treatment begins, & they dont survive.

I try to learn from the mistakes of others, & not make the same mistakes myself. Amprolium is neither an antibiotic nor a "poison". The FDA requires no withdrawal period before eating eggs from laying hens. As others have stated, amprolllium Can cause a thiamine deficiency. But that is far less common than coccidiosis.

I think everyone participating in this thread discussion has valid points. The varying viewpoints allow each individual to make their own decision. But the main point, which everyone here surely agrees on, is that "medicated chick starter" refers to an anti-coccidistat ingredient, NOT an antibiotic..

 

[urbangardengirl]

I am so confused! lol I am giving my broody hen fertilized eggs for the first time. From what I am seeing in this thread, a solid middle-ground approach would be to go ahead and give medicated starter feed for the first three or four weeks, then switch to mon-medicated starter while supplementing with oats, seeds, and greens like I do my hens? Thoughts?

 

[K0k0shka]

I am so confused! lol I am giving my broody hen fertilized eggs for the first time. From what I am seeing in this thread, a solid middle-ground approach would be to go ahead and give medicated starter feed for the first three or four weeks, then switch to mon-medicated starter while supplementing with oats, seeds, and greens like I do my hens? Thoughts?

Yes, that's the best approach.

 

[urbangardengirl]

Yes, that's the best approach.

Thank you!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I am so confused! lol I am giving my broody hen fertilized eggs for the first time. From what I am seeing in this thread, a solid middle-ground approach would be to go ahead and give medicated starter feed for the first three or four weeks, then switch to mon-medicated starter while supplementing with oats, seeds, and greens like I do my hens? Thoughts?

Read this. I wrote it several years back but it is still good.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprol is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci. Little bitty tiny baby chicks can develop that immunity easier than older chickens.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. To provide a place for that slightly damp poop, I keep a square of plywood in the dry brooder and let the poop build up on that. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.