Starter Feed with Antibiotics

[Ridgerunner]

Where would you even get chick starter with antibiotics? I've never seen it in any feed store targeted at the general public - big chain or local. This is something mass producers do to cut corners on having crappy living conditions for their overcrowded birds. It's not something that backyard chicken owners like us need to be concerned about.

This is not the one I as looking for but it does contain an antibiotic. The one I was looking for listed four different chicken feeds in the US market available in feed stores that contain an antibiotic but I could not find it. The vast majority of medicated feed sold in feed stores in the US are medicated only with Amprolium, but the majority does not mean all.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...d-50-for-coturnix-quail.945529/#post_14581243

And as LaFleche clearly points out not all forum members are in the US. I have no idea what is available in other countries.

That's why I think you should always check the label to see what medicine is in medicated feed instead of assuming. Until you know you are guessing.

Where you typically find a chicken feed with an actual antibiotic in the US is a feed intended for a backyard flock of meat birds, Cornish Cross especially. They poop so much that disease is a threat if you are doing many of them. Poop management can be an issue. Don't depend on feed store people to help much either. Some know what they are talking about but some don't, just like in any other business that deals with the public.

 

[urbangardengirl]

Read this. I wrote it several years back but it is still good.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprol is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci. Little bitty tiny baby chicks can develop that immunity easier than older chickens.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. To provide a place for that slightly damp poop, I keep a square of plywood in the dry brooder and let the poop build up on that. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

Wow! Great info, thanks!! My intent is to build a smaller pen with a dirt floor right next to my existing coop and run. My thought is all the chickens can see and get used to each other at a a safe distance while providing the same environment they will live in when older. I want to provide the best start possible however also realise that chickens have managed as a species for a long time before human interaction. Lol

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

@Ridgerunner , would your approach be different if your chicks were broody-raised, & thus exposed to the soil from day one? (The soil is kept as dry as possible). Just curious. Thank you.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Wow! Great info, thanks!! My intent is to build a smaller pen with a dirt floor right next to my existing coop and run. My thought is all the chickens can see and get used to each other at a a safe distance while providing the same environment they will live in when older. I want to provide the best start possible however also realise that chickens have managed as a species for a long time before human interaction. Lol

^^^^ this is wise.

 

[Ridgerunner]

@Ridgerunner , would your approach be different if your chicks were broody-raised, & thus exposed to the soil from day one? (The soil is kept as dry as possible). Just curious. Thank you.

Totally. My broody hens raise the chicks with the flock so they are exposed immediately. But even if you isolate your broody and chicks she is still pooping where they will peck. They are getting all this stuff for flock immunity from her. If they are on dirt, they will also get grit. My broody hens do all this by themselves, they don't need anything from me.

I do not feed any kind of medicated feed. I haven't seen the need, either in a brooder or with a broody raised chick.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Totally. My broody hens raise the chicks with the flock so they are exposed immediately. But even if you isolate your broody and chicks she is still pooping where they will peck. They are getting all this stuff for flock immunity from her. If they are on dirt, they will also get grit. My broody hens do all this by themselves, they don't need anything from me.

I do not feed any kind of medicated feed. I haven't seen the need, either in a brooder or with a broody raised chick.

and I feed medicated - not by choice, but rather because its the only thing available to me fresh from the local mills at a price point I'm willing to pay.

My birds spend a week or two in the brooder box, then (weather permitting) increasingly spend time outside in temporary tractors or the grow out pen, with a goal of full integration and free ranging by seven weeks. They are on native dirt by week two.

Never had cocci, maintain a closed flock, birds are tested to maintain my certification twice yearly for other "stuff" (Avian Influenza, vND/END, etc) - cocci, salmonella (there's ANOTHER outbreak in the news - wash your hands people, and more importantly, the KID's hands!) and the rest you have to be alert for.

Neither @Ridgerunner (I feel comfortable using them as an example) nor myself are doing it "wrong", just differently. We are making the best informed decisions we can based on our specific circumstances.

 

[KW Farms]

I've never heard of starter with antibiotics. They have medicated starter though which contains a coccidiostat (Corid) to prevent coccidiosis. Coccidiostats aren't antibiotics. We had some chicks on non-medicated develop coccidiosis this spring resulting in several losses until we got a grip on it. We've switched to medicated when chicks are not vaccinated for it and they are doing way better than the previous chicks, growing nicely and very big and healthy. We had never had coccidiosis before this year. Personally, I'm a big fan of feeding the medicated now. It gives them time to develop an immune system to fight it without coming down with coccidiosis and possibly dying.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Neither @Ridgerunner (I feel comfortable using them as an example) nor myself are doing it "wrong", just differently. We are making the best informed decisions we can based on our specific circumstances.

 

[Vacman]

Thanks for all your replies. I was not aware that the medicated starter food had Amprollum in it and not antibiotics, so thanks for that clarification. I admit to never having read the bag inclined more to support the idea that a healthy environment will result in healthy chickens. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. So far in my limited fowl experience, I haven't run into any serious problems except for one persistent brooding Buff Orpington and the loss of one Rhode Island Red to an aerial attack.

 

[KW Farms]

Thanks for all your replies. I was not aware that the medicated starter food had Amprollum in it and not antibiotics, so thanks for that clarification. I admit to never having read the bag inclined more to support the idea that a healthy environment will result in healthy chickens. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. So far in my limited fowl experience, I haven't run into any serious problems except for one persistent brooding Buff Orpington and the loss of one Rhode Island Red to an aerial attack.

Coccidiosis often comes when immune systems are compromised, such as in times of stress...a move out of the brooder, change in weather, new flock additions, etc. You can have the best, cleanliest environment and still have chicks and chickens come down with it. All chickens carry and spread coccidia so it’s about prevention through built up immunity. This is also why chicks are more prone to it as they haven’t had time to build up their immune systems. Healthy environment is important at all times, but won’t necessarily prevent an outbreak. Feeding a medicated starter is to protect them until they’ve had time to develop that immune system which will keep the levels low and in check. Coccidia is a normal part of any flock unfortunately. It’s also species specific so is no risk to people.