The Aloha Chicken Project

[Deerfield Acres]

5moore, so much fun to see your flock! Great job with those birds! The uniformity is just great.

Sommer, I like the color on your Meyer SSX, Waltz BSX cross, but, look closely at that bird's stance. It's legs are too close together. I want to build a structurally sound bird from my Waltz SSX/BSX crosses, that also have a lighter coloration than strictly Speckleds. I want wide backs and open tails. An open tail indicates a good, long term layer. My 2 Aloha hens (2nd and 3rd year hens) have pinched tails and only lay sporadically. Their color is beautiful but, ultimately, I want that color on a substantial and sound frame. Birds with proper structure are healthier and more productive overall. I am obsessed with the most unglamorous part of creating the Aloha -- frame, frame, frame. Once I get that right, then I can begin to worry about leg and feather color. I think more people would become passionately involved with the Aloha were it to be a respectable bird as well as beautifully colored. People that know chickens can't help but look at our birds and sigh. We need to be respectable in order to move toward a bird that has it's own SOP, well before it becomes a "breed" in it's own right. So the goal for my line will be a structurally sound bird of substantial size that carries mottling to contribute to the Aloha's progress.

Color is the distinguishing feature of the Aloha and it is amazing what you've uncovered. The Dun color influence is fascinating and perfectly fixes the blue issue! How did you know it would work? I bought a book on breeding but comprehending the color aspects of it is just greek to me. It's my short attention span at work.

That said, the Turkens seem to be a great help in the structure department. Personally, the naked neck is just not attractive to me, so I am happy to hear it's not hard to breed out. I think once I get my birds on the ground, those would be great crossed with mine. I want a dual purpose bird, one that is good for meat and eggs. I will be so thrilled to just make it to a cross of the Buff and Speckleds. I have one Speckled but she's a pet from Ideal. I'm going to hatch a few of her chicks just to see how much the Buff Sussex cock effects her offspring. She doesn't have terrible structure but she is still too narrow. Her speckles are evenly distributed. I've tried to take pics but so far I can't get the computer to read the card correctly. Will have to wait for my daughter to come home from school to help!

 

[HEChicken]

Deerfield stated the case for conformation far better than I could even hope to. I feel the same way and my goal is the same - to build a typey bird first and then focus on the color. A friend of mine is big into Silkies and she has a mantra: "You have to build the barn before you paint it". With that in mind, I have culled until it hurts to get to where my breeder stock are all birds that have qualities I want to perpetuate. I loved the Aloha hen I got from Deerfield 3 years ago as she had tons of personality and was a great broody and mother, however she had wry tail and her legs were too close together as Deerfield described in her post above, so I would never have considered her breeder quality.

My other projects - heritage Barred Rocks and heritage New Hampshire Reds - are proceeding alongside the Aloha project. I keep about one out of every 10 birds I hatch - no kidding. I feel there is no point keeping a bird that doesn't meet the SOP for their breed as all that will accomplish is to pass on the traits I don't want, to their offspring.

I love to see what all everyone is working on - it helps with the frustration in my own project moving SOOOOO slowly.

As long as I have waited to progress to stage two, I will say that I am happy enough with my 3 stage one hens. They are nowhere near the size of their German NH sire, but are larger than their Exchequer Leghorn mothers and have good leg set and round, plump bodies. No wry tail. I wish their legs were more yellow. Their temperament is all Leghorn - flighty and impossible to handle. However they have the NH type far more than the scrawny body of the Leghorns, so I feel I do have something to work with in future generations and hopefully future generations will gain some of the calm disposition of the NH. The other positive thing I can add is that I finally caught one in the act of laying yesterday and her egg was a really good size. Not pure white like the Leghorns but a very light colored brown egg. Definitely a good size to hold chicks in the future.

The Leghorns still have not started laying yet this spring. (I'll give the daughters credit that they are laying earlier than their mothers so that is an improvement). As soon as the Leghorns do start to lay again, I'll separate them with a NH rooster and hopefully get some fertile eggs to hatch. I have 3 NH roosters now so I actually have options for a little genetic diversity among the offspring as well. As with my other projects, I will be culling severely in hopes that each successive generation carries more of the traits we want and fewer of those we don't.

 

[alohachickens]

Deerfield, HEChicken, I am glad you guys are working on structure!

My guess is if Deerfield works on making "mille Sussex" and HEChicken works on making "mottled New Hampshire Reds" (rather than "Alohas" per se) the result will probably make even more impact when crossed with Alohas.

I am starting to pay more attention to structure. This hen from the Cinnamon Sussex line, I find I like a lot. Her color isn't the best for my goals, but what do you think of her structure?













Her Mom: Cinnamon Sussex, hatched from eggs from Paul's Rare Poultry.
Her Dad: Walt's Ark Buff Sussex.

The breeder pen she came from - Mom is the BIG white hen in here -

 

[alohachickens]

I hatched and kept two other roosters from THIS breeder pen:


ABOVE AND BELOW PICS: LAST YEAR'S BREEDER PEN


They are smaller than the "Speckled Sussex" looking rooster, and they are much too small and the wrong color to be out of the white hen.
That means Mom is either the teeny tiny Aloha hen in front, who is Buff Mottled, and actually, has BUFF ROCK in her background (even though she's small)
Or the Mom of the hens is this large "Mystery Hen" who came from Walt's Ark but looks neither like Sussex or Swedish? I was super excited about this hen, but Stephen lost her up at his house, where she was being kept, over last summer. SIGH. Real blow, losing this girl:

POSSIBLE PARENTS

This hen was about the same size as a Speckled Sussex, but clearly did not look like one. What she is - unknown - but came direct from Waltz's Ark. Loved her!

So, got these two boys from the pen, both are nearly twins. (Always good to have a back-up!) Let's call them Thing 1 and Thing 2. Who do you think is the Mom? Buff Mottled Aloha, or Waltz's Mystery Hen?

THE OFFSPRING:







Another shot with other chickens for size:


Above: Thing 1 or 2 in background. New Pumpkin in front. You can see that Thing 1 or 2 is more "beefy" and much deeper through the breast than New Pumpkin, though New Pumpkin is not fully mature, to be fair to him. Also we can contrast with this rooster - who is probably full Buff Sussex, as I did have ONE pure bred Buff Sussex hen with the Buff Sussex rooster:

ABOVE AND BELOW: PURE BUFF SUSSEX?

So, you can see the above Buff Sussex rooster has much more MASS to his body, but Thing 1 and Thing 2 are more "flashy" overall, with nice big combs and long flowing tails.

Do you like them? I think they might be a good frame for the future Alohas. Jaunty and more like the Mediterranean breeds (Leghorn, Ancona) in style, yet more beefy and substantial.

Still don't have the colors right, but I wasn't going to cull them, when they were looking so good! These have been the "main roos" in the Aloha barn for all of September-December.

 

[alohachickens]

In late December, we broke down the old coop, which had a few hens and THIS rooster:

CURRENT DOMINANT ROOSTER

What I like about this guy:

*VERY TALL
*YELLOW LEGS
*BIG COMB (easy to sex his chicks!)
*LONG TAIL

What I don't like about this guy:

*NOT AS "THICK" (Thing 1 and 2 are shorter but more meaty)
*TOO LITTLE SPOTTING (He shows spots but not an amazing amount of white)

Overall, while he is BIG BIG BIG - nobody would call this rooster small by any means! To me, Thing 1 and Thing 2 have more of a "compact" look to them. I suspect this boy is part Swedish, because the Swedish have a lot of lanky frame that is slow to fill out. However, he also has other stuff going on? Hatched from Stephen's Stock - which is heavy in Speckled Sussex but also has a lot of Swedish and New Hamsphire. Stephen has been focusing on size, and in this guy, it did pay off. He has TONS of height, though I'd like to see more meat on that frame.

Here are more pics - please critique away! What do you think of him?

 

[alohachickens]

Here, let me put the roosters in the same post! Who do you guys like better?

Tall guy:




OR - Do you like these boys?




The "Twins"


Currently, everyone is in the same coop, but the tall guy is dominant and gets most of the hens. Thing #1 and #2 still are covering some girls. The young colorful small Aloha boys rarely get a chance, but I've seen them sneak attack a hen now and then. Most of the time, the Aloha boys are rebuffed by the girls, who prefer the three larger roosters.

 

[Deerfield Acres]

HEChicken, Sounds to me like you've made some really good progress -- you are ahead of me for sure! I would love to come take a look at your birds one of these days. I'm really excited about your cross. Once you and I get our birds where we want them, it's going to feel amazing. Such a long process but I am still committed. Or maybe I'm about to be committed, not sure which!

alohachickens, That hen is definitely much closer to the mark and looks good. I love that Sussex roundness, has decent width on her back and she looks good from the back end (how old is she -- looks young? Is she laying yet?) and her legs look substantial enough for her body. A straight shot from the back or front would be easier to tell. She's a nice bird. Third pic looks like she has a crooked toe but the fourth pic contradicts the crooked toe theory. Must have been standing on something unevenly. Comb isn't perfect but I think that's the least of our worries at this point. I love her color! I've never seen that color anywhere on any bird. It would be interesting to see what she would produce crossed with that Naked Neck cockerel once he's grown and then crossed with a Mille Sussex. Any ideas what she would do crossed with that Naked Neck? I'm clueless when it comes to color. The chick would at least carry mottling.

 

[alohachickens]

If I was looking ONLY at body type - not color - here is what I like best:


I am strangely OBSESSED with the "fan tails" seen on some girls.

I love the look of that upright, perfect fan.



Unfortunately, it's not a Sussex trait:

The Sussex have more of a "bun tail" for lack of a better term. So I don't know how successful I'll be keeping the cute fan tails, or if it is even possible to keep the upright fan shape, and improve size?

 

[draye]

Here, let me put the roosters in the same post! Who do you guys like better? Tall guy: OR - Do you like these boys? The "Twins" Currently, everyone is in the same coop, but the tall guy is dominant and gets most of the hens. Thing #1 and #2 still are covering some girls. The young colorful small Aloha boys rarely get a chance, but I've seen them sneak attack a hen now and then. Most of the time, the Aloha boys are rebuffed by the girls, who prefer the three larger roosters.

If my opinion counts, then my preference are the twins. I''ve no experience with the Swedish if that us where the other rooster comes from. Will one of those (twins) be with the NN hens whose eggs that you are sending for me? The Sussex hen you asked about, she looks good to me. Nice round hen look. That us what a hen is supposed to look line to me. On another note: list my Salmon NN rooster last night. He was the one that carried the mottling gene. Still have the mottled hen though but she's just not a great layer. Only reason I'm still trying to work with her is because of her mottling. I do have a son of the Salmon I. The brooder right now, but hesitant about keeping him because, he is mottled, but part if the mottling is barred. He is quite oretty, but in my experience barring takes other too easily. Thoughts on him as a breeder for the Calico "Aloha" look. I know you said that you try to stay away from that. I'll try to get a picture of him later.

 

[alohachickens]

HEChicken, Sounds to me like you've made some really good progress -- you are ahead of me for sure! I would love to come take a look at your birds one of these days. I'm really excited about your cross. Once you and I get our birds where we want them, it's going to feel amazing. Such a long process but I am still committed. Or maybe I'm about to be committed, not sure which!

alohachickens, That hen is definitely much closer to the mark and looks good. I love that Sussex roundness, has decent width on her back and she looks good from the back end (how old is she -- looks young? Is she laying yet?) and her legs look substantial enough for her body. A straight shot from the back or front would be easier to tell. She's a nice bird. Third pic looks like she has a crooked toe but the fourth pic contradicts the crooked toe theory. Must have been standing on something unevenly. Comb isn't perfect but I think that's the least of our worries at this point. I love her color! I've never seen that color anywhere on any bird. It would be interesting to see what she would produce crossed with that Naked Neck cockerel once he's grown and then crossed with a Mille Sussex. Any ideas what she would do crossed with that Naked Neck? I'm clueless when it comes to color. The chick would at least carry mottling.

I would love to cross her to the Naked Neck rooster.

The pedigree of the resulting chicks would be mostly Sussex - Buff Sussex, Light Sussex, and Speckled Sussex. Probably about 75% Sussex on the resulting chicks. The remaining part would be Turken and Aloha.

Color? The babies may look like Mom, but might also be a strange silvery dun color. It is very unlikely that any babies would *show* Mottling, but all of the babies would *carry* Mottling. So they would be big, probably very LOVELY chicks, of Sussex type, that could improve size and body type when crossed to colorful Alohas. It would be very likely the chicks color would look a total mess, but that could be fixed on the next generation. If you want to see the definition of color that is a "total mess" it would be these two hens that I hatched from the Dun Sussex and Aloha crosses, LOL:


Probably the chicks would look kind of like this, but possibly a little darker. But even better body type, and larger. More like the big, fluffy, Cinnamon Sussex mom hen in body, but colored like the funky hen here. LOL.