The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[cjwaldon]

Birdman you are right, a certain importer/breeder/seller also promised to send me the VS 9-3 form, but after shipping chicks told me I could verify their NPIP status online.

I have seen silkies with zero fm qualities. The criticism should be applied both ways. But since I don't raise silkies I can't say if the average silkie has better fm qualities than the average Ayam Cemani. I have suspected as much based on my observations of my own AC.

Yes, the goal is all black. It is discouraging that so many misrepresent their breeding flock. And many more have so much invested that they have not culled/processed/dissected or eaten a single Ayam Cemani. So they don't know that the average AC isn't black through and through. I still have never bred a single AC with a black tongue. Everything else keeps getting better and darker, but the black tongue eludes me.

Seems to me the hype is all about raking in the cash. But I still love this breed, and I haven't given up. I'm still shooting for an all black inside and out AC like they are supposed to be.

 

[artblueggwanter]

i figure i would throw this out there..but as you know i got some fibro breeds....cemani/honas/hmong....and i gave some to the asian culture for rituals and when they butchered them they said the average silkie contained more black internal properties then the european imports to america with these expensive birds at several hundreds of dollars each....and trust me i killed at least a thousand dollars worth of birds just to see...any thoughts on y american imported all black birds would have less then all black qualities then just a regular 3 dollar silkie...i would like to know...thats for sure...all this hype on these birds and i have grown them and killed 90 percent what i have because they dont come out to my expectation of all black....so if you want all black birds....inside and out...whats the point on growing them when they dont come out all black....its been a great experience doing so...but when you spend thousands of dollars for a bird that is supposed to be all black...and every bird you kill isnt all black..whats the point...call me insane for doing such a task....but proof is proof...and when a certain importer that are the actuall importer cant even send me day olds that make it past the cull rate at a day old..and i have been told several months that they just didnt make it and they wont send me birds that arnt up to par...what happens to those birds...do you really think they kill them and not make the money...nope....they send them to the next person that doesnt have high expectations...and then they make their money.....then what hope do you have receiving these birds from them...no names mentioned...i have spent thousands of dollars for certain black breeds and most of them just end up in a garbage bag...or on a dinner plate....so what are you supposed to spend like 10k just to get an all black breeding pair...cause i would like to know...and certain importers wont even have the courtesy to even send you a legal import vs 9-3 even after they tell you for months that they are sending it....this might bite me in the butt for typing this..but i dont need to get into trouble for someone who is making hundreds of thousands of dollars in america on this breed from people because they dont want to do there job and send out the proper paperwork for me to have them...that is all i have to say...trying to legally obtain this breed has been a headache cost me thousands of dollars and is so not worth my time and effort...all because certain people are to lazy to send out a document...even after several email...which i can cut copy and paste and expose some of the largest breeders of this bird...and to show you all they care about is them getting the money and them not sending the birds legally to a different state... with that being said...well enough said.....maybe if people were striaght forward and honest people would understand this breed as well as other fibro birds are not something your going to get into and just yield black birds...cause if the importers stock cant produce all black birds then how do you as a bird person think your going to yeild a truly all black bird...dont mean to be a downer about this bird...but people need to know in a reality check...there has been several people that have sold this breed on here...and thru talking thru pm you find out they sell birds that are oiled up and manipulated to look dark and went recieving this bird their color wears off...so whats the image people are trying to sell...i have seen birds from people who post on here several times and quiet often...there birds all black...then couple months after the fact i see the bird which looks nothing like the original picture....i would love to post pics of before and after and emails and such but i am not that type of person....everyone can find out for themselves...and i wish the best for this breed however...i have no interest in the ayam cemani...it has been over played by america and unless you get the bird illegally your not going to get an all black bird...point blank...period...anyone wants to object be my guest...prove me wrong...and also include how many birds that were raised just to get that all black bird....some of the breeders that are producing this bird for the last few years still cant get an all black cemani...and if you can get an all black cemani inside and out...i want you to put your legal documents on how you obtained the bird...im just saying that...you cant...prove me wrong but you cant.

cemani fowl .com in California sais they cull first then send the good 1's

 

[boykin2010]

A Lot of people say that... Whether they actually do or not is debatable.
Ideally birds would go through 2-3 cullings before being sold as sure breeding stock but that isn't always possible

 

[PhoredaBurds]

Had some culls processed this week and did a taste test.

Both 14 weeks old, AC is from Toni Marie line, and white skinned bird was a spitzhauben-Breda cross. Both were known culls at 8 weeks and with no pet homes available, they were caponized. Both birds were brined for a few hours then filled with spent lemons and roasted.

The cemani meat was only slightly grayish with black bones and skin. Meat from the two birds was plated together with a touch of skin so that we could tell them apart.

Four of us shared the meal. The consensus was that the AC meat was slightly more tender, less stringy and a little sweeter, with a more intense taste and possibly higher fat content. The AC meat won the competition by a landslide. Visually, it was very striking as well, so we may have to try a blind taste test in the future.

 

[cjwaldon]

Awesome review PhoredaBurds!

 

[PhoredaBurds]

Thanks. It was an amazing meal. Had to share.

 

[SunnySky]

Have you considered joining the Ayam Cemani Breeders Association? The ACBA is the first official breed association for Ayam Cemani in the United States. It is an association where dedicated and passionate people meet to act as stewards and educators for this amazing breed. Members do not have to actually own Ayam Cemani to be a part of this association. We welcome everyone!

If you enjoy being part of a team, have a positive influence, wish to help guide the direction and development of Ayam Cemani in the United States, enjoy working with a passionate group of people to help keep this breed pure and return it to its Indonesian roots then join us. Being a member will provide you with many exclusive opportunities that non-members will not have. Want to learn more about who we are, what our goals are and our plans for the future? Join us!

Visit our website at www.AyamCemaniInfo.com. There you can learn more about the association and you can also join. Members also have private access to our members-only Facebook page. It contains exclusive content and offers available to our members only.

We can't wait to see you in the Association!

 

[Pyxis]

Cjwaldon beat ya to that about one page back

 

[PhoredaBurds]

Ok. Looking for some opinions here. Hope my questions aren't too naive. But I'm wondering where people on this thread stand as far as accepted practices. It's obvious that the breed needs work in this country. What is the accepted method of working with the cemanis and improving the breed? Is it about keeping the GFF line birds together, separately from the TMA line birds, separately from the more Indonesian looking birds? Or are the lines to be intermingled to bring depth to the gene pool? How about line breeding back to a parent to exaggerate his or her blackness? Is that accepted? It's clear that within each hatch, culling back chicks who have white on them or pink on their toes, etc is accepted. What is best practice for what to do with the culls? Are people processing their culls to remove them from the breeding pool, or placing in pet homes, or hanging onto them? Any and all thoughts and opinions welcome and appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[maranfarmer563]

I crossed the different lines together so I don't cross brother to sister