The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[PhoredaBurds]

If there is one thing I've learned about this breed it's that you cannot expect perfection. It is very possible those are pure cemanis. Aside from the one with the splayed leg, the others don't look that unusual. The thin short down is actually a good sign bc a feather inhibitor gene is associated with the fm genes. Recently I bought 6 eggs from a reputable breeder. 4 hatched and of those 2 had white on their faces at hatch so were placed in pet homes. I kept the two all black chicks, both of whom have grown up now into healthy young Roos. One has significant light colored leakage in his wings and the other has very mulberry comb & waddles. This breed is a work in progress in this country. Enjoy your chickens for what they are: beautiful chickens.

 

[codiallynn422]

Thank you for your reply. One is mixed not sure with what. I have to re-home almost all of them. I don't mind having spots here and there, I'm not trying to breed and sell them. It's a beautiful breed to add to my existing small flock. Trying to find new homes for the rest locally is going to be difficult and impossible to make sure they aren't going to be bred making more undesirables. The one with missing feathers ( I believe) has been plucked out. It was cover in dried grow gel, I think it's box mates did a number on him. Can't eat or drink without assistance, very uncoordinated and seems to have trouble seeing. It's making improvement but It's probably going to be a special needs chicken , very slow. It's also one of the darkest (my luck). If it makes it that will be one of the two we keep. The wobbly fellow has a new brace and seems fine. This whole thing is a mess! Hopefully all of you dedicated breeders can bring this bird back up to par so irresponsible people ruining the breed for a quick buck die out.

 

[smoothmule]

I highly doubt I will be breeding these for any purposes. I'm not comfortable with breeding anything with a murky gene pool, I still don't know much about their genetics but I know a lot of people heavily cull. I just want a couple to add some interesting colors, maybe a pair if I felt like expanding. Eight is too many for me but I don't know exactly how to move them. I know I've already lost money on them. I have no intention of telling people these are pure if I have no clue. I'm told the toes and mouth will darken but if this is the case I don't see why so many people toss them instead of waiting to see how they develop. I've also read if there's anything other than black it's not pure but then I hear 5% are black with white. Sorry for so many questions there's just a lot of misconceptions surrounding this breed and I'm trying to figure out what "standard" is.

Is the skin color black? Under the wing? the anal area? any other exposed areas? Mouth? Tongue? It would piss me off for someone to tell me to cull my chicks without actually seeing them to determine if they were truly culls of not.

Not directed at any individual...........just my thoughts and opinions
The toes and mouth will not darken up.....someone lied to you. Toenails that are clear may darken some but the toe itself will stay the same color if it's actually the toe itself. Black in the mouth and true black combs/wattles are a real challenge (Most will show mulberry in the wattles and comb by a year old)......but definitely possible. This breed is not for the beginner or the faint of heart. Breeding can be done 2 ways.......cull everything imperfect (in which case the whole flock may soon diseappear) or learn the genetics of working with the fibro genes, carefully assess each chick as an individuabefore deciding to cull and learn to choose matings with care and knowledge. My opinion (and it's only my opinion) is that option one is not the right way to do it. To me, it shows a total lack of knowledge and is a danger to this breed. To me, saying only the best should be bred and the rest discarded, is evidence of a lack of knowledge and interest in learning. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers.....just stating my opinion. If you all want cookie cutter breeds that is fine, stick with those established breeds that have no challenge presented.

You all can throw all the money into the best birds and still be on the same track if you don't take the time to study the breed, it's history (so you understand that this is not even a breed...but a type that is bred for fibro and in the country of origin, that is the main focus so what we see in the US, is a phenotype of the bird type that was desired by those who imported them.......I'd say more but do your homework and read up before spending all that money or don't cry over your losses when you should have been better prepared), learn the basiscs of genetics at the very least! And Know that if you are new to genetics...... there are those who have studied genetics for years and have still not perfected this breed....... , you are not alone.... Going the cheap route is not cheap......hatching eggs are the Worst bargain! It's more likely to cost more in the long run when you have nothing to show for your efforts that have taken weeks and weeks of your time for sometimes nothing.

There is a Lot of genetic information, old scientific papers, written on the genes responsible for full expression of fibro.(I would post them here but I had to learn to find it and you can too.) You can accomplish a lot with just that knowledge and a bunch of culls to establish a pretty fair hen flock. Once you have deternined what you're flock of hens is lacking, a proper rooster is likely going to be available from breeders who have a few years already put in to their flocks. That one added bird can change everything and in the process.......you will have a much better grasp on what it takes to work with this breed. There are not as many culls as you would think when you understand the mechanism and stop the pity party about not getting the birds you want in that first hatching or breeding season. Again .... my opinion.

 

[cjwaldon]

Toes and mouths can darken, I've seen it. They can lighten, too. In my experience most chicks start out black and show flaws as they age, but yes, I have seen a few that got darker with age. You just don't know what you have until you grow them out. Buyers expecting all perfect or all near perfect chicks from any breeder have unrealistic expectations. It's just not happening, yet. There sure seems to be a lot of complaining from people who say they have no intentions of breeding and just want something different to add to their flock, which they will get even if the birds aren't breeder quality. I am totally with you when the seller misrepresents what their breeders are producing, that's just unethical. If you want the best, then pony up the money and buy mature proven breeders.

 

[Pyxis]

X2 on the toes and mouths darkening. I sold a cull chick as yard candy to a friend of mine, and she recently updated me on her to let me know that she darkened up so much that she almost wouldn't be able to tell her from the hen in my avatar, who is one of my breeders. She had pink toes when she was born and they are now totally black. This is also why I keep my cull chicks separate from the ones I might keep - they can darken up enough that you can lose track of who is who otherwise.

 

[artblueggwanter]

I need to order a pair of birds! the shop I was going to buy from has closed. feb- march the latest

 

[artblueggwanter]

waiting on my taxes

 

[Phage]

I don't know of a better place to ask. I won some cemani chicks from an online auction. While waiting for the chicks to ship I did some reading on the breed and short american history and got extremely nervous about the sellers credibility. There's a lot of back and forth about how much lightness is acceptable but I think I was just plain ripped off. Supposedly GFF line and a hybrid of some sort from the toni marie line. I couldn't get clear shots of the mouths but some are solid black and other have yellow. I was told the feet may not be perfect and the feathers will come back darker.... I need some advice asap, I've contacted the seller but I don't think I'm going to get an acceptable response. I should also note one chick is extremely spraddle legged and another was missing much of the down and it's eyes were sealed shut. I doubt any respectable breeder would sell chicks of this quality. I'm hoping I'm wrong in which case an apology is due.

Do any of your chicks have feathers on their shanks?

 

[cafrhe]

After my daughter fell in love with this breed a year ago and getting her birthday hatching eggs last March, we finally have our first babies. As our girls have light mouths, we waited until we could buy a roo with a dark mouth. Finally got one about 6 weeks ago and put our first batch of eggs in the incubator 3 weeks ago. I would have loved a few more all black little ones, but when I look back at the hatch pictures of our original flock, we have a big improvement in quality/color already. I think only 2 hens were laying for this 1st batch. We have more eggs in the incubator and are excited to see what we get next. We had another hen start laying and decided to take the smaller eggs and not hatch the larger (we have gff type of bigger hens, and 2 smaller tmm type hens whos eggs are smaller, the tmm hens are darker overall)

Out of 8 chicks we had 3 all black and the rest with some color on their toes. I cant wait to see how they develop!

 

[sumi]

Our breed focus this week is the Ayam Cemani. Please come share your pics and thoughts on this breed.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1072107/chicken-breed-focus-ayam-cemani/0_30