The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Ravynscroft]

@RavynFallen
 lease tag me when you start the new thread.

Sure! I will do!

Figured I would share the link to it here anyways, so anyone interested that wants to follow it can...

 

[Ravynscroft]

A classic example of research before you purchase... :/




http://athensohio.craigslist.org/grd/5916452162.html

 

[WalnutHill]

A classic example of research before you purchase... :/




http://athensohio.craigslist.org/grd/5916452162.html

Just wow...

 

[cjwaldon]

A classic example of research before you purchase...

http://athensohio.craigslist.org/grd/5916452162.html

Just wow...

What?

 

[WalnutHill]

What?

White earlobes, red combs and wattles, yet calling them Ayam Cemani...

I may be a novice in the breed, but I do know white earlobes are not desirable!

 

[Pyxis]

White earlobes, red combs and wattles, yet calling them Ayam Cemani...

I may be a novice in the breed, but I do know white earlobes are not desirable!

With the white earlobes they might be the Mike Bean line of 'AC' - which were likely just high percentage leghorn crosses. Heck at one point he was even selling their eggs on eBay as "90% pure ayam cemani with leghorn mixed in ten generations back" and was making bank off them. Saw at least one auction sell for over $1,000. Then he turned around and sold chicks are purebred to others, claiming it was a different flock. But he was always posting that his had white or light blue earlobes and that they were only found in his and that he liked the look of it and thought it was neat that only his had them.

I actually had one for a while, never did breed her. Here she is:

Not a great picture, but see the white earlobe?

 

[WalnutHill]

With the white earlobes they might be the Mike Bean line of 'AC' - which were likely just high percentage leghorn crosses. Heck at one point he was even selling their eggs on eBay as "90% pure ayam cemani with leghorn mixed in ten generations back" and was making bank off them. Saw at least one auction sell for over $1,000. Then he turned around and sold chicks are purebred to others, claiming it was a different flock. But he was always posting that his had white or light blue earlobes and that they were only found in his and that he liked the look of it and thought it was neat that only his had them.

I actually had one for a while, never did breed her. Here she is:



Not a great picture, but see the white earlobe?

I see the white on the earlobe, as well as a very floppy comb and very upright tail and a very flat back. The five AC I have definitely are small birds with a gamebird like stance, chest elevated, back sloped, feathers lie flat. I do like the look. And four of them are black as coal.

 

[bluenkimchi]

I don't post often, but wanted to point out that white and blue lobes aren't limited to only Mike's controversial line. I've seen plenty of direct purchase green fire farm's cemani + svart hona and toni marie's cemani with color earlobes from white, blue to black etc. It's not as often seen as of current, since they have been made more readily available and the good folks have been working away from the color lobes, but in the early days, you could see plenty of direct purchased birds with color ear lobes. Even now, you can still see some direct purchase birds with color lobes....so yeah.. Peace out. My .02

 

[Ravynscroft]

Those earlobes have thicker and whiter enameling than I've seen from any of the Bean pics... I just posted it as example that as a buyer, it's best to check out what is workable faults in a breed and what should be passed on as too much to fight through... at least they aren't askihg $250 apiece...

 

[cjwaldon]

White earlobes, red combs and wattles, yet calling them Ayam Cemani...

I may be a novice in the breed, but I do know white earlobes are not desirable!

I've seen lots of post of posts of people who bought $200 GFF chicks and ended up with mulberry combs and white ear lobes. My first AC cockerel from GFF had silver feather leakage. ETA: And he wasn't a $200 chick either.

I don't post often, but wanted to point out that white and blue lobes aren't limited to only Mike's controversial line. I've seen plenty of direct purchase green fire farm's cemani + svart hona and toni marie's cemani with color earlobes from white, blue to black etc. It's not as often seen as of current, since they have been made more readily available and the good folks have been working away from the color lobes, but in the early days, you could see plenty of direct purchased birds with color ear lobes. Even now, you can still see some direct purchase birds with color lobes....so yeah.. Peace out. My .02

X2 !

I just posted it as example that as a buyer, it's best to check out what is workable faults in a breed and what should be passed on as too much to fight through... at least they aren't askihg $250 apiece...

Thank you for clarifying! That's what I was looking for. Just do your homework before you buy.





We must resist the temptation to look at a photo or post and assume we know the history of the birds or the ethics of the seller, or even the knowledge or experience of the seller. We don't know if those birds in the Craig's List ad are pure or not, we don't know if they are GFF or not, or, if so, if they came directly from GFF or via an intermediary. The "buyer beware" is a statement for buyers to do your homework on the SOP of the bird, know what you are looking for, have an idea of what to expect to pay OR be willing to breed to improve. Ask questions. Don't summarily judge and dismiss without first obtaining an understanding of that particular situation/seller/flock. We can only attest to our own personal experiences and knowledge. Anything else is conjecture. Those birds in the CL ad could very well be a good place to start for someone short on cash but willing to put in the time to breed to improve. That CL ad should cause a prospective buyer to ask more questions, some very specific questions. The seller states the males have mulberry combs/wattles. They posted photos. They stated the birds need work and therefor are for someone willing to work on them, or someone who just wants them as a novelty. To me, that ad seems to indicate that the seller is not very knowledgeable about the breed and has no experience breeding. I say that because they have retained breeding roosters with obvious flaws, and they say nothing about quality of offspring other than they are black at hatch.

Let's put things in a different perspective. What if, just sayin', what if the seller had opted to cull the males and sell only the hens. How would your opinions change if you had only a couple of photos of only the hens with a statement that the hens were all black and pretty good in terms of standards, and all chicks hatched all black? You have the opportunity to purchase three mature laying hens for $250. Would you still be on here saying buyer beware? But it still goes. Buyer should still do his homework and ask very pointed questions, that is unless the buyer is just looking for a novelty and has no intentions to breed them.

Let's try to not judge so much and instead use these posts and photos as teaching opportunities.

Let's analyze this ad. If you were interested in buying those birds, what questions would you ask that seller? And what are you hoping to hear in the answer you get? Or NOT hear in the answer you get?