The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[miss heny]

All these fibro projects are great!  I love projects!  But please don't keep calling them Ayam Cemani.  The very definition of the Ayam Cemani breed is that they are all black.  Not any other color.  Just black.  All black.  Or did I miss something?  Are we now only focused on skin and internal fibro saturation, no so  much feathers color?  I better go read the SOP again.

To my knowledge neither TMA nor GFF have blue eggs in their lines.  ??

I call all mine *fibro breed name* crosses if sold

 

[mistfall]

Here 's a real noob question-- is the "C" in Cemani hard or soft?

 

[cjwaldon]

I believe it's a "ch" sound.

 

[Pyxis]

It is a 'ch' sound.

 

[bullets]

TIL...

I've been calling it sim-en-eye

 

[dragonthehunter]

I have been pronouncing it as sem-Annie

 

[dboranch]

All these fibro projects are great! I love projects! But please don't keep calling them Ayam Cemani. The very definition of the Ayam Cemani breed is that they are all black. Not any other color. Just black. All black. Or did I miss something? Are we now only focused on skin and internal fibro saturation, no so much feathers color? I better go read the SOP again.

To my knowledge neither TMA nor GFF have blue eggs in their lines. ??

I can see where you are coming from. This is a huge thread and I can see the importance of staying on topic. However, for years now I have mostly been a lurker on this BYC site but recently I have decided to try and venture out a little more so call me naïve but I thought I WAS talking about pure Ayam Cemanis when I talked about my blue egg layer and my recessive white Ayam Cemanis. This thread is called ‘The American Cemani Breeders Club… Open Forum’ so I thought I was within the parameters of its subject matter. I think my chickens are pure Ayam Cemanis although I can sense that you disagree. Is this thread limited to only BLACK feathered Ayam Cemani?

I admit that I do not know that much about genetics. So are you saying that it is not genetically possible to get a blue egg or a pure white chicken from pure AC stock and that my flock is compromised? If that is the case, then I apologize for taking up valuable space on this thread but like I said, I THOUGHT I was referring to pure Ayam Cemanis and I THOUGHT I was on the correct thread for this type of discussion. I raise a huge amount of AC so by sheer volume, I am going to get a lot more diversity than the average person. I purchased my stock from a very reputable person who has always been on the cutting edge of poultry breeds and I have no reason to doubt his ethics. However, anything is possible so I am open to your opinions on the subject.

 

[WalnutHill]

I can see where you are coming from. This is a huge thread and I can see the importance of staying on topic. However, for years now I have mostly been a lurker on this BYC site but recently I have decided to try and venture out a little more so call me naïve but I thought I WAS talking about pure Ayam Cemanis when I talked about my blue egg layer and my recessive white Ayam Cemanis. This thread is called ‘The American Cemani Breeders Club… Open Forum’ so I thought I was within the parameters of its subject matter. I think my chickens are pure Ayam Cemanis although I can sense that you disagree. Is this thread limited to only BLACK feathered Ayam Cemani?

I admit that I do not know that much about genetics. So are you saying that it is not genetically possible to get a blue egg or a pure white chicken from pure AC stock and that my flock is compromised? If that is the case, then I apologize for taking up valuable space on this thread but like I said, I THOUGHT I was referring to pure Ayam Cemanis and I THOUGHT I was on the correct thread for this type of discussion. I raise a huge amount of AC so by sheer volume, I am going to get a lot more diversity than the average person. I purchased my stock from a very reputable person who has always been on the cutting edge of poultry breeds and I have no reason to doubt his ethics. However, anything is possible so I am open to your opinions on the subject.

I am not qualified to get into what may or may not be in the Ayam Cemani gene pool, but I am a proponent of breeding to an SOP. While a US SOP does not yet exist, Dutch and UK do, and neither of them list white as acceptable, nor blue egg.

It's easy to raise birds that don't meet SOP, but if they don't meet a breed description or SOP, in my opinion they should not be called the same name.

I spent quite a long time looking for birds that provide characteristics that align with the commonly accepted attributes of Ayam Cemani - all black feathers, large very dark brown eye, black comb and wattles and feet, black vent and mouth, forward stance. I have not cut them open to see the amount of internal fibro saturation, but they are some of the blackest black birds I've seen. But until they have offspring that also meet these characteristics, I don't even know if mine are qualified to be breeding stock. Any offspring that don't meet the common goal of Ayam Cemani (which is, by the translation of the name, an all black chicken) will be culled for meat.

 

[miss heny]

I am gonna interject here slightly;

His white birds appeared out of a flock what is presumed to be pure, mutations can happen in any breed. I knew one man that bred for 30 years black OEGB and had Lav and White pop up here and there, did that make them not OEGB? No they just had a mutation.

And if one is breeding to said standard then all the photos of the woolies shouldn't be called pure by that statement. Since this breed is landrace breed it will still have genetical variation pop up here and there.

 

[Pyxis]

I am gonna interject here slightly;

His white birds appeared out of a flock what is presumed to be pure, mutations can happen in any breed. I knew one man that bred for 30 years black OEGB and had Lav and White pop up here and there, did that make them not OEGB? No they just had a mutation.

And if one is breeding to said standard then all the photos of the woolies shouldn't be called pure by that statement. Since this breed is landrace breed it will still have genetical variation pop up here and there.

Well, if a differently colored bird comes out of an Ameraucana but it doesn't meet the standard, do we call that an Ameraucana? No, we call it an Easter Egger. So there are two sides to that argument.

Also, I have never seen a woolie AC, ever. I think you're thinking of the svart honas, of which I have heard of some woolies popping up. Whether those are considered accepted under a standard or not will have to be decided by those who breed them.