The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Pyxis]

Thank you so much Pyxis for responding to my request & my apologies for not reading farther into the thread. 273 pages is a bit overwhelming.

Do you have records with respect to mouth colors, i.e.; black, dark gray, tan, etc to use as reference to what your stock has developed into now? In addition, can you please tell me what breeder your stock is from? Mine are direct descendents of GFF. Everything I've researched with respect to this breeder is very good. Can you please give me your opinion here as well?

Looking forward to your photos.

Again, many thanks!

To be honest, I don't keep records of mouth color. In the scheme of things, it's not a huge deal. Darker is desired, for sure, and my breeders have gray to black mouths just due to me selecting for good fibro expression over the years. But a cemani with a black mouth is the exception, not the rule. And if everything else about a bird looks good - type, form, outer fibro expression, etc, then it would be rather silly to get rid of it because its mouth isn't black. Judges at shows aren't going around prying birds' mouths open, lol. I'm not saying ignore it entirely, but I am saying don't put a huge emphasis on it.

Yours are really young to be trying to make the call on whether you want to keep them back for breeding or not. You need to wait until they are several months old to be able to make that call. A cockerel that looks good now might develop leakage, or a red comb and wattles. A pullet might be just awful type-wise, etc. So for now, don't worry about it, just let them grow out and then take a look at them when they're four or five months old.

Plus, you have so few to start out with. When you're just getting started, you're not going to have the best stock ever. That's okay. You can start with what you have and cull more aggressively down the line. A bird that's not 'perfect' can still throw some nice offspring. And there is no such thing as a perfect bird anyway - there's always somewhere that a bird can be improved

In regards to my line, I've been working with them for five years now. Originally, my first two hens came directly from Tonie Marie Austin herself - she sold them to Randy, who then sold them to me. Then, my starting cockerel came from CJ Walden, and was also TMA lines, and I got some pullets from GFF. Five years of work later and I'd consider them my own line at this point

 

[Blue Eager]

It is without question mine are much too young to determine which should remain & which should be culled. I did some reading farther into this thread & apparently it is wise to continue breeding all of them because the valued traits are still buried in each one. I guess I just want to keep track of any possible indicators at this stage that might be useful in the future.

The information in your post is absolutely useful to say the least & i will keep it on file for future reference. Again...much appreciated.

 

[Pyxis]

These chicks are his second hatch.

I just saw this as well. One thing I would recommend going forward is, don't buy from a breeder that hasn't grown out a generation of birds yet. Unless someone has already grown out a generation, they have no idea what their birds are throwing. Color leakage, type, form, fibro expression as an adult, etc - these are all things you will have no idea your birds are producing if you haven't grown out a generation. Maybe this breeder's hens carry leakage and the cockerels from them are leaky - he doesn't know. Maybe the cockerels are growing out and have red or mulberry combs and wattles. He doesn't know. Maybe the hens and rooster aren't a good fit and aren't producing offspring that live up the standard. Again, no way he could know.

Hopefully you don't run into anything like this with your chicks, and this isn't your fault of course but really the breeder's fault for selling chicks out of his second ever hatch without bothering to grow any out. And with only two hatches, he can't even say what his birds are throwing consistently as far as even chicks go.

The information in your post is absolutely useful to say the least & i will keep it on file for future reference. Again...much appreciated.

You're welcome, glad to have helped

 

[Blue Eager]

My apologies for not being accurate with what I referred to as his second hatch. The seller kept his first hatch as part of his breeding stock. He has a total of 2 roos & 12 hens from this first hatch which have just begun laying. I looked at all of them close, including his mating pair; all of the exterior traits are at the very least, above average.

His mating pair was purchased from a lady in Colorado who purchased them from GFF. She had to sell due to neighborhood covinents.

 

[Pyxis]

My apologies for not being accurate with what I referred to as his second hatch. The seller kept his first hatch as part of his breeding stock. He has a total of 2 roos & 12 hens from this first hatch which have just begun laying. I looked at all of them close, including his mating pair; all of the exterior traits are at the very least, above average.

Oh good, lol, I was nervous for you! So these chicks are his third generation - that's much better

 

[Blue Eager]

Whew...

 

[Blue Eager]

Pyxis, Sir, if all my Cemanis make it to breeding age should they all be included in the mix or should those with lesser traits true to the breed be culled? This is a little confusing to me because all of them regardless of current features still share the same genetic makeup. Please give me your recommendation.

Thank you.

 

[Pyxis]

Pyxis, Sir, if all my Cemanis make it to breeding age should they all be included in the mix or should those with lesser traits true to the breed be culled? This is a little confusing to me because all of them regardless of current features still share the same genetic makeup. Please give me your recommendation.

Thank you.

I'm actually a ma'am

I would keep all the pullets and put the best rooster over them. Then hatch and pick out the best from your next generation to continue forward with.

If you find you have leakage, if at all possible don't use a leaky cockerel. If you do have only leaky cockerels to choose from (hopefully not but it could happen) then from the next generation keep only a cockerel that doesn't have leakage and cull the rest including all the pullets as they could be carrying leakage, put the cockerel without leakage over your hens, and then go from there.

 

[Blue Eager]

That went over well...My deepest apologies!

Great advise! I will keep this one filed.

Thank you MA'AM.

 

[Pyxis]

Lol, no worries, not the first time someone has called me a he and I'm sure it won't be the last