The Smithies, the $5 "Ayam Cemani" black meat bird

[DCchicken]

It's not too far fetched an idea that some Ayam Cemani would possibly lay black eggs, because if you can get chickens which produce very dark brown eggs, why not brown so thick it's basically black, too? I reckon it's not an impossibility but I haven't seen any sure cases of it either.... At this stage I guess it's just rumors but some hearsay turns out to be true, time will tell.

If it lays black eggs, it is not Ayam Cemani. The Indonesian and Dutch Standard calls for lightly tinted eggs. But that is besides the point. The rumor was started by some scammer that wants to sell chickens for enormous prices. The only poultry that comes close is a duck.

 

[enola]

If it lays black eggs it is not a chicken !!!

 

[gloryblue]

They must have somehow gotten Cayuga Duck, eggs mixed into a batch of chicken eggs. .either they are very confused or trying to deceive. I'd been determined to get a breeding pair of Cayugas...black from top to bottom with intense green metalic...and great layers of black eggs...though as the season progresses the eggs fade to grey then off white...

Since my discovery of Hyperpigmentation, in chickens. ..many plans have been 'put on the shelf' as they say...

I've just had two pullets hatched last spring lay their first eggs...it won't be much longer for Macie ....Smittie....is he crowing yet?
I've had to separate three cockerals hatched with those pullets as they were breeding with the year old hens.

Time sure flies.
I think I too will have to go with chicks instead of shipped eggs...from too many failures .
..I just want to see black fluff balls...without the heartache of po misshandling and scrambling anymore eggs....

Hmmm black chicken eggs??? Well I've seen purple, orange, yellow, lilac, pink, terracotta red, green, blue, grey, brown...all from my own chickens. ...never black though...
Its easy to imagine a completely Fibromelonotic bird with black eggs too. I don't know if there'd be value to it...just a funny imagery.

 

[chooks4life]

If it lays black eggs, it is not Ayam Cemani. The Indonesian and Dutch Standard calls for lightly tinted eggs. But that is besides the point. The rumor was started by some scammer that wants to sell chickens for enormous prices. The only poultry that comes close is a duck.

Breed standards aside, my comment was addressing the physical possibilities.

If it lays black eggs it is not a chicken !!!

... That's like saying 'if it has black flesh it's not a chicken!' Or 'If it has black bones it's not a chicken!'

Just because the majority of chooks have pink flesh and whitish bones and lay pale eggs doesn't mean Ayam Cemani or other birds with the FM genes are 'not chickens'; hence a chicken that laid black eggs would still be a chicken.

Best wishes.

 

[gloryblue]

Chooks4life haha might have something there ...who knows someone out there might already be working on this as a project fm bird...not me of course...but perhaps someone will do this to say " see, the blackness even goes into their eggs"

You never know what 'floats your boat' for some...guess most of our breeds were first in someone's imagination first before the breed became a project then these breeds we see today, right?!

Every chicken in the world would still be Junglefowl today we'd have without imagination.
Gallus Gallus is certainly amazing in its genetic diversity.

My dream is simple ...improving fm on any breed/ morphology that I'm blessed to work with...and to be a sponge learning by the paths others have taken before me in this quest.

I can't fully express how gratefull I am to have these forums here on byc to learn from. Thankyou for all questions asked by others I didn't think to ask...but learned from...patient time taken in explaining so much by people so far beyond my new egg start...
Thankyou ..I will be tenacious and plug along...learning all I can...even what to ask...

 

[chooks4life]

Chooks4life haha might have something there ...who knows someone out there might already be working on this as a project fm bird...not me of course...but perhaps someone will do this to say " see, the blackness even goes into their eggs"

You never know what 'floats your boat' for some...guess most of our breeds were first in someone's imagination first before the breed became a project then these breeds we see today, right?!

Every chicken in the world would still be Junglefowl today we without imagination.

My dream is simple ...improving fm on any breed/ morphology that I'm blessed to work with...and to be a sponge learning by the paths others have taken before me in this quest.

I agree, looking at what's already been achieved makes it strange to hold the idea of black eggshells as being too 'out there'. To me the idea of a Silkie phenotype is more far fetched than the idea of black pigmented eggshells (and bone and muscle tissue etc)... Yet they exist. Possibilities are apparently nigh endless.

Ages ago I read up on how eggshells are pigmented and within populations that produce black-streaked/spotted eggs etc it's not uncommon to have those who produce pure white eggs too, it's very variable and my further reading on how the Fibromelanistic genes work leads me to think it's a matter of time, 'when' not 'if' we have black egg layers.

Best wishes with your projects!

 

[DCchicken]

I agree, looking at what's already been achieved makes it strange to hold the idea of black eggshells as being too 'out there'. To me the idea of a Silkie phenotype is more far fetched than the idea of black pigmented eggshells (and bone and muscle tissue etc)... Yet they exist. Possibilities are apparently nigh endless.

Ages ago I read up on how eggshells are pigmented and within populations that produce black-streaked/spotted eggs etc it's not uncommon to have those who produce pure white eggs too, it's very variable and my further reading on how the Fibromelanistic genes work leads me to think it's a matter of time, 'when' not 'if' we have black egg layers.

Best wishes with your projects!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but the chicken genome has already been sequenced. There is not a gene that makes chicken eggs black. Now someone could be modifying DNA in a lab. I have a friend at NIH that produced a transgenic mouse that is sad, for example. So I guess anything it is possible if someone has access to a highly funded government lab. I am just not sure that would be the best use of grant money. At least the transgenic sad mouse is used to test mental health drugs.

But the real reason we see this is that there is a scammer out there that wants to claim black eggs so that people buy his chickens. Notice how there are no actual videos of black eggs. Images can be easily faked. Video is more difficult.

 

[chooks4life]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but the chicken genome has already been sequenced. There is not a gene that makes chicken eggs black. Now someone could be modifying DNA in a lab. I have a friend at NIH that produced a transgenic mouse that is sad, for example. So I guess anything it is possible if someone has access to a highly funded government lab. I am just not sure that would be the best use of grant money. At least the transgenic sad mouse is used to test mental health drugs.

But the real reason we see this is that there is a scammer out there that wants to claim black eggs so that people buy his chickens. Notice how there are no actual videos of black eggs. Images can be easily faked. Video is more difficult.

:/ It's a possible mutation involving or akin to FM, is what I'm saying. I didn't try to imply or suggest that it's an existing/known gene.

And thank you, but I already know the chicken genome has been sequenced.

Best wishes.

 

[tridentk9]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but the chicken genome has already been sequenced.  There is not a gene that makes chicken eggs black.  

Have they looked through the chicken genome for black egg laying genes? The genome doesn't come labeled. That would make things so much easier!! Could be epistatic to some other, equally rare gene or even need a disease state first to produce black shelled eggs.

With no legend of black eggs it's very doubtful but not impossible. Hmmm, conceivably they could be non-viable but you'd think some sign of a black shell would be visible even if the egg imploded.

 

[lauraschicks]

Hello. How do you find your ACs, SHs, and Smithies differ in color, shape, and size at the same ages? Aren't the Smithies supplemented with leghorn_chicken to improve their egglaying? Or am I confusing them with another AC line?