To worm or not to worm that is the question.

[Mrs. K]

I am almost afraid to say this and jinx myself. I have never wormed chickens, and never seen any evidence of worms.

We raise cattle, and once in a while you will get one that tends to go lousy. My husband does not keep them. Personally if I saw worms or my hens became unthrifty, I would use a real wormer. I do think that space, weather, overall condition of the birds can have an influence on whether or not your birds get parasites.

If they do, you are feeding the parasites.

I live in the north, maybe that helps. Anyway, I am on the side, if you don't see anything, don't worm, but if you worm, read the directions and follow them, using real medicine.

Mrs K

 

[Beekissed]

This is kind of amazing, and may partly depend upon where you live, and definitely depends on what your goals for chicken keeping ARE.

If you have a dog and you live where there are heart-worms - you probably give your dog a once-a-month wormer. Heart worms in dogs are nasty and will shorten their life -- and therefore why take a chance when they can be prevented?.... even though years and years and years ago - people never gave their dogs heart worm meds.

If you live where there are hard freezes over winter you may be looking at something different from those of us who live in warm climates. -

When I was on a cattle ranch for a decade we used parasite medicine on the cattle. There is one that can even be used on milk cows with no milk withdrawal period.

Why, when modern science can prevent these parasites would you not prevent them? I use cydectin - and I see no ill effects in my chickens. cydectin can also rid the chickens of external parasites..... so -- why not give your animals protection?

Regarding if people living with small areas should abstain from having chickens, or if eggs from chickens that aren't organic (nothing artificial given to them to promote their health for example) are lesser quality than supermarket eggs so just get supermarket eggs....?? Beekissed, you are a brilliant chicken keeper and a star on BYC, but to suggest that people don't have a few hens in the back yard because of the difference it doesn't make in the grocery bill -- misses a lot of enjoyment, education, and other than just grocery-bill reasons for having chickens.

Not everything can be monetized, or should be for that matter IMO. In UK it is really very common to keep a few hens at the back of the 'garden' -- Not everyone who has chickens needs to have an egg selling business - (I'm sure I misunderstood what your said) Some in UK get ex battery hens just to have a few chickens around. Some like them for bug control or for just enjoying the chickens scratching around in the grass.

It should be everyone's best choice to care for their flock as they see fit -- and everyone is dealing with slightly different circumstances and has different goals..... everyone has their own approach to keeping chickens -- There are some types of livestock, in some climates that are done a pretty big disservice by failing to worm them (generic for parasite protection) -- this includes horses, goats, cattle, and chickens along with preventing heartworm in dogs in a climate like this one.

ETA -- just to clarify my point -- it is great that lots of posters in this thread feel no need to worm, or have no wish to worm. My perspective is I want the parasites away from my chickens -- and so I want a definite regular worming schedule for their well being.

Somewhat ironic to read your signature line and then the text of your post.

There are many, many people who STILL don't give their dogs heartworm medicine, even in areas where it is common. There are natural, preventative measures for that as well. Not everything has to be medicine all the time.

And, for the record, worm medicine doesn't "prevent" worm infestations, it treats it. If you worm regularly, you are merely breeding a more resistant worm strain in your livestock and will eventually have to switch to a different or stronger medicine. Then the survivors of THAT medicine will have offspring that are resistant to it and so and so forth.

No one said folks who don't have room can't have chickens, but the remark was made that they don't have any options but to give them medicines in order to live in those small spaces. I merely clarified that one option no one was stating was to not have them at all. It is a viable option and makes plenty of sense, especially if one believes the chickens cannot remain healthy in the area in which they live unless they are continually medicated. If given a choice of living where you had to be medicated, to the detriment of your own health in the long run, would you continue to live there or would you choose to be elsewhere? I'd choose to live where I could remain healthy without taking drugs.

Since the chickens don't get a choice and we are their stewards, it's up to us to make the decision whether or not to keep chickens in spaces that are not optimal for their good health. What a person chooses from there is up to them, but the option to refrain is indeed an option and a good one for the chicken, even if the human doesn't want to go without their use of the chicken for enjoyment purposes. One merely has to decide if it's worth one's own enjoyment to expose an animal to unhealthy living conditions. Like you said, it's a personal choice....but it's still a choice, so my post was in reference to the quote in my post that stated that these people in question didn't have many choices. They do, even if it's to forego their own pleasure in the use of an animal.

 

[shortgrass]

I liken it to the mantra, "an ounce if PREVENTION is worth a pound of CURE."


I'd rather prevent them than "treat" on a regular basis, with chemicals that do not belong in the food chain. I guess since I work harder on preventing them, which seems to have been successful for the last 37 years, I don't ever even see the need for it.

Prevention lol, saves a ton on wormers

 

[Bridebeliever]

I liken it to the mantra, "an ounce if PREVENTION is worth a pound of CURE."


I'd rather prevent them than "treat" on a regular basis, with chemicals that do not belong in the food chain. I guess since I work harder on preventing them, which seems to have been successful for the last 37 years, I don't ever even see the need for it.

Prevention lol, saves a ton on wormers

Please tell us what it is you do to prevent them. I feel keeping a clean healthy coop and keeping them with clean water and good quality food and allowing them outside everyday for free range is my part in keeping them healthy. I don't overcrowd either. Is that all there is to it or should I be doing more? (Supplements like garlic, pumpkin, vitamins?). Also, I don't give them human food...is that okay? I frequently hear of people giving their chickens the equivalent of "slop" from their table like you would give to a pig.

 

[shortgrass]

Please tell us what it is you do to prevent them. I feel keeping a clean healthy coop and keeping them with clean water and good quality food and allowing them outside everyday for free range is my part in keeping them healthy. I don't overcrowd either. Is that all there is to it or should I be doing more? (Supplements like garlic, pumpkin, vitamins?). Also, I don't give them human food...is that okay? I frequently hear of people giving their chickens the equivalent of "slop" from their table like you would give to a pig.

Well, most of what you just stated is exactly what I do

Cleanliness, fresh water daily, good quality fresh feed, which I ferment for the benefit if the microbes to keep their gut flora healthy; I have been known to dose their water with raw ACV in summer when they're out eating worm loaded insects.

In bigger animals like the sheep and cattle, we depend on pasture rotation and dung beetles take care if the rest, but we also have a nice freezing winter to help with control of certain parasites.

I'm not trying to prevent them from getting a few worms; I'm keeping them from getting infested.

The herbs and plants that I grow specifically fircworm loads are wormwood, garlic, dill, and nettles. I also use pumkins and their seeds contain a natural anthelmintic, so even if I were to think an infestation were imminent, out come the pumpkins, garlic, and wormwood, but the animals have proven themselves smarter than me lol; as long as I provide access to these things, and keep their little guts healthy, they can self medicate and let their healthy little immune systems take care of the rest

Pumpkin seeds. Natural wormer. No need for the chemicals when a few pumpkins every fall will do it for me, wormwood does it for me in spring, nettles in summer, and garlic all year in case needed.

And yes lol, the links are out there on another post, of all the plants just mentioned... I now need to go find that ha-ha

Edit* oh! Ha-ha those links are on page one of this thread


Oh, and I'm most definitely a "slop" feeder lol... But nothing rotten or questionable, mostly dinner leftovers and scraps from the garden, beet tops and whatnot; they really go to town on pasta ha-ha... No raw meat though, cooked thoroughly meat; they do eat mice and frogs though, so I know they do have access to wormy wild food, even if I avoid feeding it to them

 

[Beekissed]

One of the easiest and most effective preventative for parasites for any livestock is judicious culling. No amount of feeding anthelminics, healthy environment, nutritious feed, etc., can help prevent parasites as well as a yearly culling of the animals most likely to be carriers. Nonlayers, elderly, nonthrifty, poor feathering, loners, outcasts, etc. are those more likely to contract illness and parasites in any flock. A yearly culling of any and all birds that fit these criteria will also help eliminate those birds that would serve as a petri dish for microbial pathogens and as hosts to parasites, both internal and external.

Any time you look at a bird and feel like you should probably give her extra feed/supplements beyond her current balanced ration or think maybe you should give her medicine for this or that, that's a bird to cull. Don't wait and think she may change with time...maybe she will, but currently she's a fine host for parasites and vulnerable to disease. Why keep one individual around in hopes she'll get healthier and compromise the rest of the flock? Even isolating her is not a good solution...it causes stress to the bird and nurses along a bird that would probably die on her own without special attention or will sicken again the future, so culling is a better choice for the flock as a whole.

Keeping aging birds are fine if they are still laying reasonably well for their age....when they stop for months at a time it's likely time to remove them from the flock. There's always exceptions to the rule, but they are truly exceptions.

Hard words to many, I'm sure, but it's still the unvarnished truth. A flock is only as healthy as its weakest member. Take those out each year and you have a flock strong enough to withstand most things coming and going.

 

[Teila]

Can I just add to the above that Beekissed is talking about livestock and there are other options for anyone reading this with a small backyard flock who are much loved pets.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I only cull if they are sick and can't recover, or are suffering, I have quite a few older gals that haven't layed an egg in years, I'm not culling them, I don't worm my chickens, I don't treat sick birds because if they are sick it's nothing I can treat. They are allowed to range, and engage in natural chicken behaviors, they aren't coddled or kept in a sealed up coop. I do give my dogs heartworm preventive though.

 

[Bridebeliever]

One of the easiest and most effective preventative for parasites for any livestock is judicious culling. No amount of feeding anthelminics, healthy environment, nutritious feed, etc., can help prevent parasites as well as a yearly culling of the animals most likely to be carriers. Nonlayers, elderly, nonthrifty, poor feathering, loners, outcasts, etc. are those more likely to contract illness and parasites in any flock. A yearly culling of any and all birds that fit these criteria will also help eliminate those birds that would serve as a petri dish for microbial pathogens and as hosts to parasites, both internal and external.

Any time you look at a bird and feel like you should probably give her extra feed/supplements beyond her current balanced ration or think maybe you should give her medicine for this or that, that's a bird to cull. Don't wait and think she may change with time...maybe she will, but currently she's a fine host for parasites and vulnerable to disease. Why keep one individual around in hopes she'll get healthier and compromise the rest of the flock? Even isolating her is not a good solution...it causes stress to the bird and nurses along a bird that would probably die on her own without special attention or will sicken again the future, so culling is a better choice for the flock as a whole.

Keeping aging birds are fine if they are still laying reasonably well for their age....when they stop for months at a time it's likely time to remove them from the flock. There's always exceptions to the rule, but they are truly exceptions.

Hard words to many, I'm sure, but it's still the unvarnished truth. A flock is only as healthy as its weakest member. Take those out each year and you have a flock strong enough to withstand most things coming and going.

Beekissed makes excellent points above.

This is another of my thoughts. I've been pondering it for weeks. So many people come on here and are like...my little chick is weak and not eating. What do I do? Nature...it has a way of weeding out the weak ones. A rooster is picking on ONE particular hen in the group, won't let her around, attacks her when she comes near the food. The rooster is a protector of the flock! He doesn't attack all your hens? Then HE knows something is wrong with her!! Listen to nature, it's usually very clear. I'm not saying it's easy but if you care about your flock as a whole you won't let weakness in. I don't believe saving a chicken at all cost. Okay, if it's egg bound, help her out...once...if it continues to happen she's got a problem with her reproductive tract, it may be time to cull. I sound tough, I haven't had to do it yet but I do feel this is excellent animal husbandry.

I once had a parakeet reject her two day old chick. I took that chick out fed it and returned it to the nest every two hours everyday for a week. Finally when it was stronger the mom keet started to take care of it again. The parakeet grew up...and it turned out to have a deformed foot. It also only lived for 2 years. Guess what? Mom keet knew this and was doing what nature told her to do...reject the weak one. Every spring mother birds throw what looks like perfectly healthy baby birds out of their nest. They know! And if we pay attention to our chickens we will know too.

Of course you can save your beloved pet chicken! I saved my cute little keet! I'm just saying that there are weak ones in flocks like Beekissed said, it's not always good to have that weakness there if it compromises the flock.

 

[Beekissed]

Can I just add to the above that Beekissed is talking about livestock and there are other options for anyone reading this with a small backyard flock who are much loved pets.

No, I'm talking about chickens, be they on a farm or in a back yard. Someone asked how to prevent worms, that's a HUGE and the most effective way of doing it consistently and for years, developing and keeping a strong flock. I can bring any bird into my flock, from whatever source, and I don't have to worry about my birds getting sick due to that exposure because I have strong birds. If the new bird is sick it will soon show it and it will then be culled. Simple.

You know that old saying "Everyone wants to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die"? That applies here. If you want a healthy flock for year after year without any incidents of disease or parasite infestation in the flock, culling is one of the most effective tools of flock management one can have.

This is one reason all natural anthelminics rarely work for backyarders and you see posts where they were using them but got worms anyway, so they assumed they just don't work. Nope. They work VERY well in conjunction with other all natural methods, like culling weak animals from the herd or flock. It's just that no one wants to add that part into their flock management methods on a consistent basis.

Why is it that people think, just because someone kills their chickens, that they are not talking about back yard chickens or much loved animals? It's because of the great love I have for them that I'm willing to make sure the flock, as a whole, are not compromised by keeping potential disease and parasite hosts in their midst.