Tolbunt Polish

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I love you sis! I could try to help but can't help you in that way hahaha jk I love u had to tease u. I miss you thank you for all the baby chicks hope u liked all 10 of yours!
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Has anyone seen any bantam tolbunts before? I have this little one from my hatch 2 weeks ago and it is significantly smaller than the rest of the polish it hatched with. I have two other tolbunts that are on the small side but the other four are normal sized. I put a couple of pictures below.


 
fowlman01 said:
I'm trying to find the answer to this, so I thought I would try here.

The US Polish Club has a Standard for Tolbunt Polish posted on their web site. People are telling me it is incorrect. I did some research and found this:
The description was copied from the German Tolbunt website. The birds here have been imported from Germany (other than the ones that are being "made" here from odds and ends).

Why is the German Standard incorrect?

Walt
Click to expand...
Hi Walt,

Hopefully I can shed some light on your above statement. We do have a standard on the site, it is in the process of being reviewed. The standard was written based on the limited info we had at the time on the variety. The standard was written thus, " TOLBUNT COLOR DESCRIPTION
Plumage: each feather should be 50% light reddish brown, 25% black, and 25% white. Colors on feather should begin as grey-brown near the skin, surface color beginning as light reddish brown, going to a black blob, then a white blob at the end of the feather.
Undercolor: Grey-brown
notes on color: A tendency toward black lacing on the light reddish brown is permitted, but not encouraged. The ideal feather will have the black and white as blobs on the feathers, not lacing."

The downfall of this variety was there was limited info from day 1 and a lot of bad info out there. Some even suggested that the birds that were orginally imported were improper specimens of the pattern to begin with. Back when I had them everyone was saying to cross them to Russian Orloff as an outcross, which we learned to late was disastrous. We couldn't even agree on the proper spelling: Tolbunt, tollbunt, tollbund, etc. The goal of the color's originator was not clear either. Some say he was trying to make mille fluer pattern, which is what many believed early on. Given the information we now have, and also the images of the Tolbunt patterned Wyandottes that are in Europe we now see that the pattern is spangling over a gold lace pattern (gold lace as in Polish, given the breed, not gold lace as found in the Wyandottes). The other reason this direction was chosen I believe is that it was the most logical variety to outcross to, despite gold laceds not being that great here in the states. Our gold laceds are of a different ground color (more orange-red by comparison to the Germany birds which look more mahoghany). Even the clubs in Europe were debating the proper markings for this variety. One final note is that one of the two authors of our current standard never owned Tolbunts. Early on there was talk of splitting it into two varieties, the laced ones being the Tolbunts and the others being referred to as Harlequins, but this idea never got off the ground. Given some minor adjustments to the current wording it would lend itself to the laced patterning: 50% light reddish brown (ground color), 25% black (even lacing around edge), 25% white (spangled tip).

 
i think tolbunts are gust gorgeous i wish i could get some!!!! But there are not very many polish chikens of any color here
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Vcomb said:
Hi Walt,

Hopefully I can shed some light on your above statement. We do have a standard on the site, it is in the process of being reviewed. The standard was written based on the limited info we had at the time on the variety. The standard was written thus, " TOLBUNT COLOR DESCRIPTION
Plumage: each feather should be 50% light reddish brown, 25% black, and 25% white. Colors on feather should begin as grey-brown near the skin, surface color beginning as light reddish brown, going to a black blob, then a white blob at the end of the feather.
Undercolor: Grey-brown
notes on color: A tendency toward black lacing on the light reddish brown is permitted, but not encouraged. The ideal feather will have the black and white as blobs on the feathers, not lacing."

The downfall of this variety was there was limited info from day 1 and a lot of bad info out there. Some even suggested that the birds that were orginally imported were improper specimens of the pattern to begin with. Back when I had them everyone was saying to cross them to Russian Orloff as an outcross, which we learned to late was disastrous. We couldn't even agree on the proper spelling: Tolbunt, tollbunt, tollbund, etc. The goal of the color's originator was not clear either. Some say he was trying to make mille fluer pattern, which is what many believed early on. Given the information we now have, and also the images of the Tolbunt patterned Wyandottes that are in Europe we now see that the pattern is spangling over a gold lace pattern (gold lace as in Polish, given the breed, not gold lace as found in the Wyandottes). The other reason this direction was chosen I believe is that it was the most logical variety to outcross to, despite gold laceds not being that great here in the states. Our gold laceds are of a different ground color (more orange-red by comparison to the Germany birds which look more mahoghany). Even the clubs in Europe were debating the proper markings for this variety. One final note is that one of the two authors of our current standard never owned Tolbunts. Early on there was talk of splitting it into two varieties, the laced ones being the Tolbunts and the others being referred to as Harlequins, but this idea never got off the ground. Given some minor adjustments to the current wording it would lend itself to the laced patterning: 50% light reddish brown (ground color), 25% black (even lacing around edge), 25% white (spangled tip).
Click to expand...

It sounds as if this is going to take a while...I'll put this one on the back burner as far as our Committee goes. Glen Cryar has told me that they copied it word for word from the German Standard, so I guess they didn't need to raise them to do that. It would have been a good idea though, since this seems a pretty complex color pattern. I am happy that you mentioned that the Orloff was a bad choice since they are all over the place in terms of color and type too and for the most part are extinct IMO. To add to your spellings I have also found Tolbunte.

My one comment to those of you involved in determining the correct color.......don't back yourself into a corner as some breeds have with a color that is almost impossible to obtain on both the female and the male. It is a very cool color.....or at least the variations I have seen are very cool looking.

Walt
 

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