Too much calcium?

[KsKingBee]

As some of you know I feed a wet mash to my birds. We have a glut of chicken eggs right now so I am adding them to the recipe. I have been putting about a dozen in a five gallon bucket and got lazy the other day and just tossed the eggs, shell and all in the bucket and mixed them in. The shell size is very small, 1/4 inch might be the largest bits found in the mash.

The birds are eating it all up, yearlings and mature alike. Now I am getting concerned that they might be getting too much calcium. What do ya'll think?

 

[Garden Peas]

The body needs calcium regularly for muscles and bone maintenance. Then the body needs more when growing feathers or laying eggs. In my opinion it would be better to have a little extra calcium than little less. If your hen uses some of her feathers to put into her nest that extra calcium can help with the feather growth. Egg shells the calcium will be used very quickly. I've seen it in people having "organic" chicken flocks. Eggshell quality is poor because they recycle the eggshells over and over and no other substances for calcium. The eggshell quality began to get worse and worse. If you wish to test it start giving your chickens forages and eggshells. You'll notice that the eggs will go from a smooth feeling (if they have the proper level of calcium) to a thin shell were you can feel all of the pores.

Well, yes -- all of this is true, calcium can get depleted. But we also know that too much calcium is bad for the kidneys and strains the system. So the question that @KsKingBee is asking makes sense... is this particular addition of calcium going to be beneficial or is it too much?

We answer that question by figuring out how much calcium he would be adding with the eggshells, and then seeing how much that will change the total calcium he's feeding. You took chemistry in high school already, right? He doesn't need his feed to go over the 3% or he might be getting a little high on calcium My guesstimation is that the weight of the shells -- even a dozen of them -- is so much smaller than the dry weight of the feed he's assembling, that the added calcium (which is only about 40% of the weight of the eggshells) is going to be nearly negligible by the time he's done. But we need to know what the dry weight is of his feed, the weight of the eggshells, and how much calcium is in the feed already.

I was wondering if you were going to go all molar quantity on the calculations for us

Some of us are too old to be able to do it all in our heads anymore...

 

[Garden Peas]

Looking at the calcium math from an even more interesting angle, @KsKingBee if you are feeding a dozen eggs to around 100 birds, that's about 1/10 of an eggshell per bird.

Quote:
Well, except for the part of grossly over-estimating the calcium... the egg shell weight is much less than the weight of the liquid contents. So instead of 2 ounces times 0.4, it's gonna be less than 1/4 ounce times 0.4. (I just weighed a chicken egg shell -- slightly damp with the membrane inside, it was 7 grams.) There aren't 0.8 ounces of shell IN an egg shell. 0.4 x 7 grams is 2.8 grams, or 2800 milligrams of calcium, which is still an overestimate since I didn't dry the shell or peel out the membrane.

@KsKingBee 's birds are getting about 1/10 of an eggshell each per day, or something less than 280 mg of elemental calcium per bird, in addition to the amount of calcium in the feed already. That's about as much calcium as in a glass of milk, or as much calcium as in 4 crickets.

Hens lay a whole pea-egg's worth of calcium every other day during laying season -- in addition to the other ways they use up calcium, they are excreting that much more in their own shells. So they excrete more than five times as much calcium per day as would be added.

A dozen chicken eggs would have less than 34 grams of calcium (that's roughly an ounce) total in the whole pile of shells. I strongly suspect that the weight of feed (dry weight, before adding water moisture) for 100 birds is more like 3 kilograms (roughly 6 1/2 pounds) or maybe more... 34 grams x 100 is 3400 grams, which is 3.4 kg... if the feed weighs that much or more, he's adding 1% or less. The more the feed weighs, the lower percent of calcium it adds.

To bump up a 50lb bag of feed (22.73 kg) by 3.5% calcium, you would have to add 795 grams of calcium -- that's about 1 3/4 pounds of elemental calcium, which would be almost 2 kg (4.4 lb) of egg shells. That's the egg shells from about 284 eggs (almost 24 dozen eggs) added to the bag of feed. Every 81 egg shells increases the percent of calcium in the 50 lb bag by 1%.
Using metric units is MUCH easier here.

Here are two very cool articles about calcium and other nutrients in bugs and insects -- some favorite pea treats!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...inerals-imagine-ordering-mealworm-burger.html

http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm

Insects are PACKED with protein and calcium, in case you are hungry...

 

[Birdrain92]

Looking at the calcium math from an even more interesting angle, @KsKingBee if you are feeding a dozen eggs to around 100 birds, that's about 1/10 of an eggshell per bird.

Well, except for the part of grossly over-estimating the calcium... the egg shell weight is much less than the weight of the liquid contents. So instead of 2 ounces times 0.4, it's gonna be less than 1/4 ounce times 0.4. (I just weighed a chicken egg shell -- slightly damp with the membrane inside, it was 7 grams.) There aren't 0.8 ounces of shell IN an egg shell. 0.4 x 7 grams is 2.8 grams, or 2800 milligrams of calcium, which is still an overestimate since I didn't dry the shell or peel out the membrane.

@KsKingBee 's birds are getting about 1/10 of an eggshell each per day, or something less than 280 mg of elemental calcium per bird, in addition to the amount of calcium in the feed already. That's about as much calcium as in a glass of milk, or as much calcium as in 4 crickets.

Hens lay a whole pea-egg's worth of calcium every other day during laying season -- in addition to the other ways they use up calcium, they are excreting that much more in their own shells. So they excrete more than five times as much calcium per day as would be added.

A dozen chicken eggs would have less than 34 grams of calcium (that's roughly an ounce) total in the whole pile of shells. I strongly suspect that the weight of feed (dry weight, before adding water moisture) for 100 birds is more like 3 kilograms (roughly 6 1/2 pounds) or maybe more... 34 grams x 100 is 3400 grams, which is 3.4 kg... if the feed weighs that much or more, he's adding 1% or less. The more the feed weighs, the lower percent of calcium it adds.

To bump up a 50lb bag of feed (22.73 kg) by 3.5% calcium, you would have to add 795 grams of calcium -- that's about 1 3/4 pounds of elemental calcium, which would be almost 2 kg (4.4 lb) of egg shells. That's the egg shells from about 284 eggs (almost 24 dozen eggs) added to the bag of feed. Every 81 egg shells increases the percent of calcium in the 50 lb bag by 1%.
Using metric units is MUCH easier here.

Here are two very cool articles about calcium and other nutrients in bugs and insects -- some favorite pea treats!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...inerals-imagine-ordering-mealworm-burger.html

http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm

Insects are PACKED with protein and calcium, in case you are hungry...

I know the shell is lighter but since I couldn't find the weight last night I just used it as an example though in reality it's not. You just need to take certain numbers out and plug certain numbers in. Same equation and process.

 

[casportpony]

As some of you know I feed a wet mash to my birds. We have a glut of chicken eggs right now so I am adding them to the recipe. I have been putting about a dozen in a five gallon bucket and got lazy the other day and just tossed the eggs, shell and all in the bucket and mixed them in. The shell size is very small, 1/4 inch might be the largest bits found in the mash.

The birds are eating it all up, yearlings and mature alike. Now I am getting concerned that they might be getting too much calcium. What do ya'll think?

What's the percentage of calcium in the feed that your giving?

-Kathy

 

[Birdrain92]

As some of you know I feed a wet mash to my birds. We have a glut of chicken eggs right now so I am adding them to the recipe. I have been putting about a dozen in a five gallon bucket and got lazy the other day and just tossed the eggs, shell and all in the bucket and mixed them in. The shell size is very small, 1/4 inch might be the largest bits found in the mash.

The birds are eating it all up, yearlings and mature alike. Now I am getting concerned that they might be getting too much calcium. What do ya'll think?

Can you post a picture or tell us the calcium in your base feed?

 

[KsKingBee]

The calcium level in my mix is between 2 and 3%, well within the recommended amount for peafowl.

My question is if I 'force' them to eat shells that are hidden in the mash, will the excess calcium hurt them?

Oh, nevermind. I'll just break the eggs and not feed the shells.

 

[Birdrain92]

The calcium level in my mix is between 2 and 3%, well within the recommended amount for peafowl.

My question is if I 'force' them to eat shells that are hidden in the mash, will the excess calcium hurt them?

Oh, nevermind. I'll just break the eggs and not feed the shells.

It won't hurt them majorly like a deficiency would in my opinion. May throw their body off but the body will find a way to use that extra calcium. Or possibly dispose of it through feces. Or possibly the body may adapt. In my opinion I would do the shells as a breeding season thing. Even though I've never seen your feed but I know with my feed pan that has meat bird crumbles and oyster shells mixed together my peafowl can pick through it. They're that great with their aim.

 

[Garden Peas]

Cool! Chemistry AND math in one question, yaay!

So a little internet searching suggests that the eggshell itself is about 95% calcium carbonate, good old CaCO3. One source said eggshell powder is about 39% elemental calcium (so the other approximately 60% is going to be the carbonate fraction).

If you weigh your eggshells (you only have to do this once, approximations will be close enough), then multiply by 0.4, that will be the approximate weight of the calcium. My guess is that when you then divide that weight in grams by the weight in grams of the amount of feed you are giving your flock at that feeding (don't include the weight of the water, though), you are going to find you have a very small number. Just guessing, but I'm thinking the number of grams in a dozen eggshells compared to the weight of feed for what, around 100 birds(?) is going to be much less than 1%.

In other words, do the math one time, but I bet the difference in the amount of added calcium is less than the "slop" in the label calcium content of "between 2 - 3 %" from the bag.

Does that help?

I betcha @Birdrain92 can do the chemistry precisely, too!

 

[Birdrain92]

The body needs calcium regularly for muscles and bone maintenance. Then the body needs more when growing feathers or laying eggs. In my opinion it would be better to have a little extra calcium than little less. If your hen uses some of her feathers to put into her nest that extra calcium can help with the feather growth. Egg shells the calcium will be used very quickly. I've seen it in people having "organic" chicken flocks. Eggshell quality is poor because they recycle the eggshells over and over and no other substances for calcium. The eggshell quality began to get worse and worse. If you wish to test it start giving your chickens forages and eggshells. You'll notice that the eggs will go from a smooth feeling (if they have the proper level of calcium) to a thin shell were you can feel all of the pores.