What exactly does breed for resistance mean?
- Thread starter kathyinmo
- Start date
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IF we all raised birds like you Don, this would be a very short thread. Nice to hear some here are doing it the way it has been done for decades if not centuries.
IF we all raised birds like you Don, this would be a very short thread. Nice to hear some here are doing it the way it has been done for decades if not centuries.
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Hi Don - no one is asking you to change, just like I'm sure you're not asking others to change. It's a very personal decision that each person must make, and live with, on their own.
This is just a great discussion of the different viewpoints. I pray that I don't someday seriously regret my decision not to medicate.
Hi Don - no one is asking you to change, just like I'm sure you're not asking others to change. It's a very personal decision that each person must make, and live with, on their own.
This is just a great discussion of the different viewpoints. I pray that I don't someday seriously regret my decision not to medicate.
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Hi Don - no one is asking you to change, just like I'm sure you're not asking others to change. It's a very personal decision that each person must make, and live with, on their own.
This is just a great discussion of the different viewpoints. I pray that I don't someday seriously regret my decision not to medicate.
Hi Ruth, You are aware of the way I write, I always say do what makes you the most comfortable when raising poultry. The book by Fred Jeffrey that some refer to was wrote in the stoneages and there have been many improvements made with modern technology. If the price to pay was not so high I might go back to the old fashion way. I got hit with Laryngo in the not too distant past and it will never happen again on my place. I should also say it only affected the young birds as all the older fowl were vaccinated. I have to say it was not a pretty sight to witness.
Hi Don - no one is asking you to change, just like I'm sure you're not asking others to change. It's a very personal decision that each person must make, and live with, on their own.
This is just a great discussion of the different viewpoints. I pray that I don't someday seriously regret my decision not to medicate.
Hi Ruth, You are aware of the way I write, I always say do what makes you the most comfortable when raising poultry. The book by Fred Jeffrey that some refer to was wrote in the stoneages and there have been many improvements made with modern technology. If the price to pay was not so high I might go back to the old fashion way. I got hit with Laryngo in the not too distant past and it will never happen again on my place. I should also say it only affected the young birds as all the older fowl were vaccinated. I have to say it was not a pretty sight to witness.
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Leaving the Marans breed out of the discussion (that's just asking for a locked thread) I think this part of your post brings up another good topic for discussion - along the lines of breeding for resistance.
I think many, including myself, have experienced this. We order hatching eggs and/or chicks and those are the ones that get "sick". In my case, it was only the Welsummer chicks I ordered that got Fowl Pox, and only the roosters, but none of my other birds got it. Even something like Bumblefoot - originally with all of my birds coming from other breeders, I was doing a lot of bumblefoot surgeries. Now, I have NOT seen a single case in over a year. I've also read where others have ordered chicks, like Halo, and had them eventually get sick. My question is, instead of assuming that the new chicks were sick or carriers is:
Is it possible (and I believe it is) that the new ones weren't sick or carriers but that they did not have the immunities, the resistance, to the stuff (disease) that is present in your flock and your flock has naturally developed resistance to it and thus shows no sign of being ill, nor any of their offspring.
In other words, we've all read that worms are present in goats and chickens, just a way of life. I'm sure if I did a fecal on my chickens and goats poop something would show up but since they seem big and healthy and no signs of worms, they have a level that is "normal" and controllable for their system and I choose to leave well enough alone and not use poisons. We've also read that things like MG and many other diseases are present in the eggs and seemingly healthy birds. Again, it's starting to look like a lot of these "diseases" are commonly occuring things that some chickens have just developed a resistance to. So, when new chicks are brought in, they get sick because they didn't hatch from birds that had the resistance and they didn't grow up on the farm where immunities have been developed, so they get sick and die. Then "they" are blamed for being the sick ones and coming from sick/weak breeder birds.
Just a thought and up for discussion.......
Leaving the Marans breed out of the discussion (that's just asking for a locked thread) I think this part of your post brings up another good topic for discussion - along the lines of breeding for resistance.
I think many, including myself, have experienced this. We order hatching eggs and/or chicks and those are the ones that get "sick". In my case, it was only the Welsummer chicks I ordered that got Fowl Pox, and only the roosters, but none of my other birds got it. Even something like Bumblefoot - originally with all of my birds coming from other breeders, I was doing a lot of bumblefoot surgeries. Now, I have NOT seen a single case in over a year. I've also read where others have ordered chicks, like Halo, and had them eventually get sick. My question is, instead of assuming that the new chicks were sick or carriers is:
Is it possible (and I believe it is) that the new ones weren't sick or carriers but that they did not have the immunities, the resistance, to the stuff (disease) that is present in your flock and your flock has naturally developed resistance to it and thus shows no sign of being ill, nor any of their offspring.
In other words, we've all read that worms are present in goats and chickens, just a way of life. I'm sure if I did a fecal on my chickens and goats poop something would show up but since they seem big and healthy and no signs of worms, they have a level that is "normal" and controllable for their system and I choose to leave well enough alone and not use poisons. We've also read that things like MG and many other diseases are present in the eggs and seemingly healthy birds. Again, it's starting to look like a lot of these "diseases" are commonly occuring things that some chickens have just developed a resistance to. So, when new chicks are brought in, they get sick because they didn't hatch from birds that had the resistance and they didn't grow up on the farm where immunities have been developed, so they get sick and die. Then "they" are blamed for being the sick ones and coming from sick/weak breeder birds.
Just a thought and up for discussion.......
Good discussion, folks! Monique, I think that many folks selling birds and eggs don't pay enough attention to the health of their parent stock. A good breeding feed rather than just a laying pellet would be a good idea, with extra added protein supplementation and a vitamin/mineral supplement like AviaCharge 2000. If the parent stock's health isn't of prime importance, unthrifty chicks may hatch.
Would like to ad one other thing. I do not believe it is possible to breed a resistance to Worms and parasites. It might be possible for free range fowl to eat and dust in different things that would keep these things out and off. please remember one thing and that is if your fowl get any of these it will lower their resistance to other diseases.
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Quote:
Leaving the Marans breed out of the discussion (that's just asking for a locked thread) I think this part of your post brings up another good topic for discussion - along the lines of breeding for resistance.
I think many, including myself, have experienced this. We order hatching eggs and/or chicks and those are the ones that get "sick". In my case, it was only the Welsummer chicks I ordered that got Fowl Pox, and only the roosters, but none of my other birds got it. Even something like Bumblefoot - originally with all of my birds coming from other breeders, I was doing a lot of bumblefoot surgeries. Now, I have NOT seen a single case in over a year. I've also read where others have ordered chicks, like Halo, and had them eventually get sick. My question is, instead of assuming that the new chicks were sick or carriers is:
Is it possible (and I believe it is) that the new ones weren't sick or carriers but that they did not have the immunities, the resistance, to the stuff (disease) that is present in your flock and your flock has naturally developed resistance to it and thus shows no sign of being ill, nor any of their offspring.
In other words, we've all read that worms are present in goats and chickens, just a way of life. I'm sure if I did a fecal on my chickens and goats poop something would show up but since they seem big and healthy and no signs of worms, they have a level that is "normal" and controllable for their system and I choose to leave well enough alone and not use poisons. We've also read that things like MG and many other diseases are present in the eggs and seemingly healthy birds. Again, it's starting to look like a lot of these "diseases" are commonly occuring things that some chickens have just developed a resistance to. So, when new chicks are brought in, they get sick because they didn't hatch from birds that had the resistance and they didn't grow up on the farm where immunities have been developed, so they get sick and die. Then "they" are blamed for being the sick ones and coming from sick/weak breeder birds.
Just a thought and up for discussion.......
I dont know. I really don't. All I know is that the chicks that I got eventually got sick, and I know that they came from a flock that had this very same sickness (Im assuming; the symptoms were the same). I also understand (maybe incorrectly) that MG can be transmitted thru the egg, so I just assumed that was where it came from, and got rid of it quickly.
I didnt mean to bring up Marans for any other reason than that has been a problem with them. They are being treated aggressively to correct this. Which brings us back to the different ways people deal with this, either treat or let nature take its course and let the strongest survive. Is this treating doing the Marans breed a disservice? Should Marans breeders play hardball and only keep and breed those that dont get ill? You could substitute any other breed in there, but I dont know of any other issues like this in other breeds.
Leaving the Marans breed out of the discussion (that's just asking for a locked thread) I think this part of your post brings up another good topic for discussion - along the lines of breeding for resistance.
I think many, including myself, have experienced this. We order hatching eggs and/or chicks and those are the ones that get "sick". In my case, it was only the Welsummer chicks I ordered that got Fowl Pox, and only the roosters, but none of my other birds got it. Even something like Bumblefoot - originally with all of my birds coming from other breeders, I was doing a lot of bumblefoot surgeries. Now, I have NOT seen a single case in over a year. I've also read where others have ordered chicks, like Halo, and had them eventually get sick. My question is, instead of assuming that the new chicks were sick or carriers is:
Is it possible (and I believe it is) that the new ones weren't sick or carriers but that they did not have the immunities, the resistance, to the stuff (disease) that is present in your flock and your flock has naturally developed resistance to it and thus shows no sign of being ill, nor any of their offspring.
In other words, we've all read that worms are present in goats and chickens, just a way of life. I'm sure if I did a fecal on my chickens and goats poop something would show up but since they seem big and healthy and no signs of worms, they have a level that is "normal" and controllable for their system and I choose to leave well enough alone and not use poisons. We've also read that things like MG and many other diseases are present in the eggs and seemingly healthy birds. Again, it's starting to look like a lot of these "diseases" are commonly occuring things that some chickens have just developed a resistance to. So, when new chicks are brought in, they get sick because they didn't hatch from birds that had the resistance and they didn't grow up on the farm where immunities have been developed, so they get sick and die. Then "they" are blamed for being the sick ones and coming from sick/weak breeder birds.
Just a thought and up for discussion.......
I dont know. I really don't. All I know is that the chicks that I got eventually got sick, and I know that they came from a flock that had this very same sickness (Im assuming; the symptoms were the same). I also understand (maybe incorrectly) that MG can be transmitted thru the egg, so I just assumed that was where it came from, and got rid of it quickly.
I didnt mean to bring up Marans for any other reason than that has been a problem with them. They are being treated aggressively to correct this. Which brings us back to the different ways people deal with this, either treat or let nature take its course and let the strongest survive. Is this treating doing the Marans breed a disservice? Should Marans breeders play hardball and only keep and breed those that dont get ill? You could substitute any other breed in there, but I dont know of any other issues like this in other breeds.
Quote:
Leaving the Marans breed out of the discussion (that's just asking for a locked thread) I think this part of your post brings up another good topic for discussion - along the lines of breeding for resistance.
I think many, including myself, have experienced this. We order hatching eggs and/or chicks and those are the ones that get "sick". In my case, it was only the Welsummer chicks I ordered that got Fowl Pox, and only the roosters, but none of my other birds got it. Even something like Bumblefoot - originally with all of my birds coming from other breeders, I was doing a lot of bumblefoot surgeries. Now, I have NOT seen a single case in over a year. I've also read where others have ordered chicks, like Halo, and had them eventually get sick. My question is, instead of assuming that the new chicks were sick or carriers is:
Is it possible (and I believe it is) that the new ones weren't sick or carriers but that they did not have the immunities, the resistance, to the stuff (disease) that is present in your flock and your flock has naturally developed resistance to it and thus shows no sign of being ill, nor any of their offspring.
In other words, we've all read that worms are present in goats and chickens, just a way of life. I'm sure if I did a fecal on my chickens and goats poop something would show up but since they seem big and healthy and no signs of worms, they have a level that is "normal" and controllable for their system and I choose to leave well enough alone and not use poisons. We've also read that things like MG and many other diseases are present in the eggs and seemingly healthy birds. Again, it's starting to look like a lot of these "diseases" are commonly occuring things that some chickens have just developed a resistance to. So, when new chicks are brought in, they get sick because they didn't hatch from birds that had the resistance and they didn't grow up on the farm where immunities have been developed, so they get sick and die. Then "they" are blamed for being the sick ones and coming from sick/weak breeder birds.
Just a thought and up for discussion.......
Most diseases/ illnesses are triggered by stress or poor husbandry.
Chronic Respiratory Disease (CRD) was once known as "The Stress Disease" because most birds only caught it when they were in high levels of stress.
If you are going to use prevention med's for CRD I have always herd that LS 50 was one of the best to use and if you need/ want to treat a bird with CRD you can use Gallimycin Baytril LS-50 (From what I have read my choice of Med's for a treatment would be Gallimycin)
Chris
Leaving the Marans breed out of the discussion (that's just asking for a locked thread) I think this part of your post brings up another good topic for discussion - along the lines of breeding for resistance.
I think many, including myself, have experienced this. We order hatching eggs and/or chicks and those are the ones that get "sick". In my case, it was only the Welsummer chicks I ordered that got Fowl Pox, and only the roosters, but none of my other birds got it. Even something like Bumblefoot - originally with all of my birds coming from other breeders, I was doing a lot of bumblefoot surgeries. Now, I have NOT seen a single case in over a year. I've also read where others have ordered chicks, like Halo, and had them eventually get sick. My question is, instead of assuming that the new chicks were sick or carriers is:
Is it possible (and I believe it is) that the new ones weren't sick or carriers but that they did not have the immunities, the resistance, to the stuff (disease) that is present in your flock and your flock has naturally developed resistance to it and thus shows no sign of being ill, nor any of their offspring.
In other words, we've all read that worms are present in goats and chickens, just a way of life. I'm sure if I did a fecal on my chickens and goats poop something would show up but since they seem big and healthy and no signs of worms, they have a level that is "normal" and controllable for their system and I choose to leave well enough alone and not use poisons. We've also read that things like MG and many other diseases are present in the eggs and seemingly healthy birds. Again, it's starting to look like a lot of these "diseases" are commonly occuring things that some chickens have just developed a resistance to. So, when new chicks are brought in, they get sick because they didn't hatch from birds that had the resistance and they didn't grow up on the farm where immunities have been developed, so they get sick and die. Then "they" are blamed for being the sick ones and coming from sick/weak breeder birds.
Just a thought and up for discussion.......
Most diseases/ illnesses are triggered by stress or poor husbandry.
Chronic Respiratory Disease (CRD) was once known as "The Stress Disease" because most birds only caught it when they were in high levels of stress.
If you are going to use prevention med's for CRD I have always herd that LS 50 was one of the best to use and if you need/ want to treat a bird with CRD you can use Gallimycin Baytril LS-50 (From what I have read my choice of Med's for a treatment would be Gallimycin)
Chris
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Okay if I am following correctly (i've just spent last 40 minutes reading through entire thread its all running together - lol ) resistance breeding is culling any bird who shows symptoms of illness immediately, and leaving those whom don't show signs of illness.....
So here is where I am beyond curious and wondering....If say NYREDS - the birds that are left after culling, how do you know they are actually truely resistant, and not just becoming carriers themselves? I've seen it happen when in spring 2009 a sick bird was introduced (by someone throwing it out in my yard) to my negative tested and non vaccinated flock while they were free ranging (over a weekend) and I have very few birds die (maybe 3 of the 40ish) some get sick (maybe 10 ) the rest did not show any symptoms what so ever...I quarantined off the sick birds and waited out a couple weeks before calling and getting EVERYTHING tested, of the 30ish birds that didn't show any symptoms what so ever, I think it was about 20 tested positive for 1 or both diseases that the very obviously sick bird introduced....So of the 30ish over half were carriers but had showed no symptoms of either illness... I had all birds who tested positive culled, which left me with about 8, whom I gave to a friend and as of this summer were re-tested by that friend, and are not positive for either illness they were introduced to....
So i'm wondering are you guys just guessing your flocks are disease resistant when you are culling for only visual symptoms, or if you get your flocks tested to find out of they are truly resistant...Because out of my flock of 40 chickens - 30 showed no symptoms - so if going by the 'cull the sick LOOKING ones' I would have still been technically left with 20ish birds whom could pass on a disease to other chickens and their offspring...I only truely apparently had 8 birds out of that flock who either did not come in contact with the sick animal (highly doubtful) or were 'truely resistant' ....
P.S. I have since moved from where I had the previous flock and have a new flock of pet birds...I am using the same way of I know they started out healthy and disease free, new chicks were vaccinated for mareks only - if I bought older birds they were quarantined and tested...but if I have anything pop up I too plan to cull off only the sick birds and not worry about re-testing as these are my pets and I really do not plan on breeding to sell again.
So here is where I am beyond curious and wondering....If say NYREDS - the birds that are left after culling, how do you know they are actually truely resistant, and not just becoming carriers themselves? I've seen it happen when in spring 2009 a sick bird was introduced (by someone throwing it out in my yard) to my negative tested and non vaccinated flock while they were free ranging (over a weekend) and I have very few birds die (maybe 3 of the 40ish) some get sick (maybe 10 ) the rest did not show any symptoms what so ever...I quarantined off the sick birds and waited out a couple weeks before calling and getting EVERYTHING tested, of the 30ish birds that didn't show any symptoms what so ever, I think it was about 20 tested positive for 1 or both diseases that the very obviously sick bird introduced....So of the 30ish over half were carriers but had showed no symptoms of either illness... I had all birds who tested positive culled, which left me with about 8, whom I gave to a friend and as of this summer were re-tested by that friend, and are not positive for either illness they were introduced to....
So i'm wondering are you guys just guessing your flocks are disease resistant when you are culling for only visual symptoms, or if you get your flocks tested to find out of they are truly resistant...Because out of my flock of 40 chickens - 30 showed no symptoms - so if going by the 'cull the sick LOOKING ones' I would have still been technically left with 20ish birds whom could pass on a disease to other chickens and their offspring...I only truely apparently had 8 birds out of that flock who either did not come in contact with the sick animal (highly doubtful) or were 'truely resistant' ....
P.S. I have since moved from where I had the previous flock and have a new flock of pet birds...I am using the same way of I know they started out healthy and disease free, new chicks were vaccinated for mareks only - if I bought older birds they were quarantined and tested...but if I have anything pop up I too plan to cull off only the sick birds and not worry about re-testing as these are my pets and I really do not plan on breeding to sell again.
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