What exactly does breed for resistance mean?

[Chook-A-Holic]

kathyinmo, You have a very good point and I realize that. Thanks for posting this. I guess that's what the aforementioned poster was using as a reason to post what they did. I don't worry about what might happen but at the same time I don't want my birds purposely exposed when it can be prevented. We need to do what we can to protect our flocks but at the same time we need to relax and enjoy them and not worry too much about what might happen. Kinda feels like walkin' a tight rope...lol. Very interesting and informative thread, thanks all!!!

 

[gogoalie]

I'm on record as sayin' that breeding for resistance is allowing the sick bird to recover & produce progeny as this pesticide resistance model in bugs shows clearly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_resistance

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
I read it differently than you do, I guess. I look at it this way .... they are ALL exposed. Some react (get sick) and others have a resistance. It makes no sense to me to keep (or treat) a sick bird to breed.

Why keep a sick bird around? Even if they do survive (treated or not), I would think they would (or could) produce less healthy progeny with a weaker immune system. I believe you breed healthy birds, not sick birds. You breed the survivors of the exposure, not the sick ones that recovered.

 

[coq au vin]

Quote:
1. I hope any newbies reading this thread take note of everybody who correctly disagrees with you.

2. I hope you never sell birds or eggs.

3. That wikipedia article is a bit "apples-to-oranges", don't ya think?

4. You are a danger to the hobby/profession of keeping chickens.

 

[DAFox]

Quote:
I have a different interpretation based on the article you posted which by the way Wikipedia clearly states: "This article may be inaccurate in or unbalanced towards certain viewpoints. Please improve the article by adding information on neglected viewpoints, or discuss the issue on the talk page."

I am going to use the illustrated example given in the article you posted though because it does accurately show what happens. I am including disease in the model along with pesticide:

A pesticide/disease is introduced. Most of the targeted organisms are susceptible to the pesticide/disease and die or in the case of disease -- get sick. They are removed from the pictures. A few susceptible organisms do escape the first exposure to the pesticide/disease. Now the important part: some of the targeted organisms are naturally resistant to the pesticide/disease. They reproduce. So do the few susceptible organisms that are left from the first exposure. The pesticide/diesease is introduced again. The next picture shows that the majority of the organisms are the prodigy of the pesticide/disease resistant organisms.

That is exactly what breed for resistance means.

1. Exposure to pathogens
2. Removal of diseased birds from the breeding population, including recovered ones.
3. The rest reproduce
4. Continued exposure to pathogens
5. Continued removal of diseased birds from the breeding population, including recovered ones.
6. The resistant birds reproduce.
7. A resistant flock is now established

Removal does not mean selling or giving away diseased/recovered birds. I am going through the process above because of some form of CRD. Until the State Vet clears what is left of my flock at the end of this process, no bird (dead or alive) nor any egg will leave my farm.

NYREDS probably said it best: Pathogens are free to come and go. And a hatchet takes care of any susceptible birds. What's left are resistant.

Dale-Ann

 

[coq au vin]

Quote:
You were also on record as requesting the following page be made a sticky by the mods: http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/poultry/syllabus_home.htm

I guess you didn't actually read much of it, because you apparently missed this, from the fourth link under the "General" heading, which is titled "Primary Routes of Poultry Disease Transmission": http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/poultry/Syllabus/page10.htm

RECOVERED CARRIER BIRDS e.g. MG, LT, Hemophilus

How long have you been keeping chickens? You're on here arguing with people who have decades of professional experience, not four chickens in a dog house in their backyards.​

 

[()relics]

Wikipedia ???? Please:

What is Wikipedia?

Wikipedia is an online free-content encyclopedia that anyone can edit and contribute to. Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales has described Wikipedia as "an effort to create and distribute a multilingual free encyclopedia of the highest quality to every single person on the planet in his or her own language." Wikipedia exists to bring knowledge to everyone who seeks it.

from the wiki definition for Wiki.....I am now going to edit the definition to "nuclear fission" so it more fits My theory.​

 

[Jmurcks]

Quote:
No, I don't have birds tested. For one thing I don't know if there are tests available for all common illnesses. For another I'm sure it would be prohibitively costly.
At the same time I'm not guessing. My data is I don't often get sick birds & I do lots of things people here tell me I shouldn't. I go to shows & don't isolate birds on their return. I visit other farms & always welcome visitors to mine. On those rare occasions when I do bring a new bird or birds in they go directly in the existing flocks.
This is not a one generation process. When I first began this practice I culled a number of birds. Each year the number became fewer & now a sick bird is a rare thing.

This makes so much sense....
One question to NYREDS: what, if anything, do you use for an injury? Such as one gets pecked or caught in a fence or something? Or bumblefoot?
I would love to know a good broad spectrum wound treatment!

 

[NYREDS]

As I said earlier in nearly 50 years of keeping chickens I've never seen a case of Bumblefoot. If I had one I expect I would cull the bird not from a resistance standpoint of course but because treating it sounds like a hassle.
As to wounds it depends on the severity. I had a pen of 145 young LF Red Pyle Modern GAmes this year that just couldn't stop picking at each other. Two were picked down to the bone on their backs. I culled those. The ones that weren't picked as badly I seperated & used some Blue Coat on thier wounds. That or some antibiotic ointment is probably as far as I'd go.

 

[speckledhen]

Removal does not mean selling or giving away diseased/recovered birds. I am going through the process above because of some form of CRD. Until the State Vet clears what is left of my flock at the end of this process, no bird (dead or alive) nor any egg will leave my farm.

NYREDS probably said it best: Pathogens are free to come and go. And a hatchet takes care of any susceptible birds. What's left are resistant.

Dale-Ann

Yes, yes, YES! Thank you, Dale-Ann.

And you cannot, cannot compare bugs to avian species. I submit that if you are selling eggs, chicks or adult birds who have been sick from any contagious disease (would have said "known carrier disease", but most never test to see what the bird had and throw antibiotics at it in a "shotgun" effort to fix the problem), then you are being unethical. There is no getting around that. This is why I never buy started birds--some folks have a lackadaisical approach to disease prevention and they never volunteer that information to you.

I don't know about NYReds, but there is no reason not to treat an injury properly, unless that injury is too severe for the bird to successfully recover or if it makes it impossible for the bird to breed (if you're a breeder). I don't use any antibiotics at all unless it is a life threatening injury and possibility of serious infection. But, the time factor is in there, too, if you're a big time breeder and just don't have the time to nurse an injured bird who requires lots of attention in order to heal.


Keeping recovered (but potentially carrier) birds only weakens your flock and sets you up to continually separate and treat ill birds and possibly pass on that disease to someone else's flock somehow.​