When does a bloodline become "Yours"

[3riverschick]

Hi,
We are discussing the definition of the word line as I understand it?
One can have a strain, which is a group of related animals of the same
breed or variety within a breed.
One develops a "line" per se when that strain of creatures , thru selective
breeding, shows characteristics which set it apart from others of its variety
or breed while holding true to the esstential breed type of that variety or
breed. A "look" which sets one's strain of creatures apart from the norm.
Like when one goes to a show and seeing some birds, just "knows" they
come from one breeder's flock because they have "that look" (one or more
characteristics peculiar to that breeder's program) for which the breeder is known.
In other words, being able to call a group of creatures one's own
"line" has to do with the results of one efforts and not the efforts
themselves. The efforts bring forth the results. However, without the results,
the efforts would be meaningless and a "line " would not result. The group
of creatures would remain a strain.
Happy Holidays,
Karen Tewart
Director of Archives
Marans of America Club

 

[cubalaya]

strains are historic and you cant go back and change them. a line is what is being bred today.

 

[HSR Marans]

Hi Everyone,

Well, I've been listening to this thread and everyone's opinion seems to make sense in one way or another. This is what I do with my breeding.

I currently have three lines of Black Copper Marans. Each original breeding trio came from their respective breeders. I keep them exclusive to their origin. Then, in a completely different area I have what I call my mixed birds. They are chicks from all three lines that I held back for myself to experiment with over the years. These birds when bred and cross bred will produce MY line. I never sell these eggs or birds to anyone. I think it would be a little disreputable to claim they are from such and such line, when indeed they are of my own design. The other three lines I sell as what they have and always be, pure .........., ..............., or ................ Does that make any sense.

Maybe someday, when I get my mixed birds looking like I want them to, on a consistent basis. They and only then would I call them MY line.

I'm not saying anyone else is wrong or right, just saying this is the way I do it. People do want to know where their birds originated from. They also appreciate it when the line is kept pure.

 

[Funky Feathers]

Makes sense to me.

 

[Rainwolf]

ok I just started with chicken breeding but have been working with quails for meat and laying so I have a little knowledge but forgive me if I totally mess something up

my personal opinion:

If I get a pair from breeder A and all I do is sell eggs/chicks from that breeding pair then I would credit Breeder A

If I Line breed the pair for specific traits then I would say its my line with original stock from Breeder A

If I add other bloodlines Then it is my line with base stock from breeder A B and C

Purchased Stock lines should get credit (if you have a good lines) But after either Line breeding or mixing bloodlines then I believe it is your personal line.

Now I also believe a good breeder brings in something to their line that a trained quality eye can see. Once you get to the point where people can tell that this bird is from your line then most likely you don't need to back reference the original stock lines unless asked. By then I'd hope that everyone already knows

 

[farmnfowl]

something to ponder here.i feel as soon as you cross into someones line it is no longer that persons line anymore.and i will go one step further after you have bred another persons birds long enough it is no longer thier line either.but it is a new line that originates from thier line assuming no crosses were ever made.heres why lets say you have birds from an excellant line or a well known breeder.you decide to make a cross with a bird from another line.whamo the first cross produces f-1 young but now are only 50 percent of the original birds bloodline.you begin down a road that is rather simple to understand just by knowing how the percentage breaks down from the crosses.here is the simple thing you need to understand.f-1 young 50% from original parent,f-2 25% from original parent.f-3 12.5% original parent.f-4 6.25% blood from original parent.and f-5 is only a little over 3% of the original birds blood.so you can see in a short period of time how one birds influence can diminish with time.you can also see how line breeding that same original bird in and out of the bloodline can have numerous and different effects or outcomes when you breed.if you have Great birds to start with be very careful crossing in and keep records and control of crosses because some lines just dont work very well when you cross them.Only the very best should be kept from crosses and bred back in to the original line.line breeding is fun frustrating and a real art.lets all have some fun!!!!!

 

[onthespot]

I have lots of breeds of chickens.

I have two pens of marans. One is bayhorsebonne (Donna Gehrke) and one is "Bev Davis" (secondhand from other breeders that bought from her)

I keep the two pens separated and do not mix the lines. I have most of my original birds I hatched from bayhorsebonne, so I still refer them as her line. People are getting F1 eggs from birds she intentionally hatched. HOWEVER... I have a pair that hatched out small (bantam?) from that pen. They are not even to reproductive stage yet, but since I selected them for a different trait, VERY different from what she bred for, or most every other marans breeder, I feel safe to call them "Patty Carson" line, even though they are F1 from a known breeder.

Case #2, my barred olive egger pen. I bought a single barred, bearded, pea combed, green laying hen from someone that bought her as a "feed store chick" and grew her out. I don't know what feedstore, and don't know what hatchery sent chicks to them, so other than the lady that fed her a few months, I have no info on her background. I liked her so much that I kept her offspring, chose the best roo and crossed her back, introduced other cuckoo marans blood, hatched, saved, culled, grew out, and have developed a small breeding flock of barred olive eggers that are still a work in progress. There is no standard for that variety, but in my head I have a very strict standard i am breeding toward. No one knows it but me, LOL, but it's there. That line, even though it came from totally unknown stock, I call it mine, and it is not even a breed, and no one cares but me.

 

[halo]

Quote:
See, this is where I differ. Just because you hatched chicks from bayhorsebonne, doesnt mean that offspring from those chicks should be credited to her. Unless you have contacted her and asked her which ones to breed from, the buck stops there, so to speak. Any breeding decision that is not hers, is yours, and to me should be stated as such. Just because you have kept all the chicks from her eggs and are breeding them doesnt make it her line.

In my so humble opinion, of course.

 

[Medicine Man]

nevermind. decided not to waste time talking semantics.

 

[onthespot]

Quote:
I did contact her. Not only that, I took my birds to her house and we spent quite a bit of time going over each one and she told me which ones were best to use and why. She lives five minutes away from where I keep my birds. Too bad she had to quit breeding earlier this year, but if she ever wanted back in the game, I don't think she would blink about getting replacement eggs from my stock and calling it hers. If I had F2, 3 and 4 mixed in there, maybe not so much.