Whole Corn Vs Cracked Corn, What do you use?

[Chris09]

For some reason I was thinking gizzard and typed crop. I also know there function.

I am aware of Metabolism and it's functions and how it is broken down into two types Anabolism and Catabolism. I also know that the Energy of a set feed/ feed product is broken down into digestible energy (DE), net energy maintenance (NEm), and net energy growth (NEg).

Now the gizzard is a muscle that takes very little energy to do it job and helps keep a chicken warm wile its working about as much as our tongue moving up and down.

There are a few good studies on this subject and not one that I have read said anything about corn "heating" up poultry.

 

[TERRY4]

Quote:
Like I said. To each their own. I know it works!

 

[Chris09]

You are right, to each there own.
I myself will stick to the studies that have been done by collages and by people that have a poultry nutrition background.

We can look at it this way also if corn (whole or cracked) produced enough ''heat'' to keep poultry warm why wouldn't it be one of the feed ingredients they tell you to cut back on in the summer time to help prevent heat stress/stroke in chicken. I know there are a lot of backyard chicken raisers that believe the whole "you can't feed corn to chickens in the summer" idea but there is not one study that backs it, in fact there are more studies that say cut protein that corn.

 

[Chris09]

I only use cracked corn and only feed it in the winter, as an additive to the regular feed. Or rather, as a daily snack, IF it's super cold out. Farmers in my area, including myself, have known for many years to give corn in the winter to help keep animals warm. A lab can't prove anything when it comes to that. But to each their own!

Cracked corn is best for us.

I don't know about the farmers in your area of Ohio but in my area (NE Ohio) the cattle, goat and sheep farmers feed hay at night just like every other livestock farm I'v seen including the ones up in Canada. Hay last far longer and takes more energy to break it down than corn.

A "lab" can prove a lot more than what you think, in fact if it wasn't for the "labs" we wouldn't have the feeds we have today.

 

[tielsandchooks]

Well Chris09, I consulted an avian physiologist on this one-- the concept and my theory that perhaps the prolonged working of the gizzard at night on whole hard corn would help produce body heat. What he informed me was that chickens and all birds use internal shivering (muscle contractions) to stay warm on cold nights, and they will also keep warm blood circulating near vital organs while allowing extremities to cool down. While he was unable to cite any particualar studies off the top of his head, in his opinion, "the action of the gizzard probably does provide some added heat." So I guess I am not totally full of you know what. And you can also look at it this way, I don't care what the labs say, my chickens won't eat whole corn in the heat if they have a choice. They only eat it when it is cold. A chicken knows more about what's going on inside its body than any of us. I listen and learn from my birds first.

 

[Chris09]

Well Chris09, I consulted an avian physiologist on this one-- the concept and my theory that perhaps the prolonged working of the gizzard at night on whole hard corn would help produce body heat. What he informed me was that chickens and all birds use internal shivering (muscle contractions) to stay warm on cold nights, and they will also keep warm blood circulating near vital organs while allowing extremities to cool down. While he was unable to cite any particualar studies off the top of his head, in his opinion, "the action of the gizzard probably does provide some added heat." So I guess I am not totally full of you know what. And you can also look at it this way, I don't care what the labs say, my chickens won't eat whole corn in the heat if they have a choice. They only eat it when it is cold. A chicken knows more about what's going on inside its body than any of us. I listen and learn from my birds first.

Quote: How many years experience does he have with poultry nutrition and in the field of poultry? Chickens are quite different than other members of the avian world.

Quote: If you go out and you have chickens (poultry) shivering then you have a problem. I have raised poultry for 40+ years and I have never had a chicken shiver unless it had health problems.

Quote: Every little movement a body can produces some amount of heat. Some movements produce more heat than others, the gizzard produces a minute amount of heat and since the gizzard works all the time it will produce the same amount of "heat" all the time. IF corn produces heat in the gizzard then wouldn't you think grit would produce even more heat then since it is harder than the corn.

Quote: Did you ever stop and think that maybe the reason your chicken aren't eating corn in the summer is do to there meeting there caloric needs with out having to eat the corn. Also if you are feeding a regular pre-bagged feed there already eating nearly 70% corn in there diet.

Quote: There are so many things wrong with this statement.

 

[tielsandchooks]

Well dear me Chris09, there are so many things wrong with your rebuttal as well:

1. For one thing, chickens are NOT quite different from other members of the avian world. Their physiology is exactly the same. Poultry scientists however, have been doing their best for years to create a dumbed down freak version of the amazing chicken in order to profit from them as highly efficient meat and egg machines at the least possible input expense.

2. You misunderstand the concept of shivering. It is not something you can see. It is a widespread adaptation used by ALL birds (unlike mammals) to maintain body heat in the winter. If you don't understand the concept, google it and educate yourself.

3. How do you know how much heat a working gizzard gives off? The gizzard does NOT work all the time--only when it has food in it to grind. Have you ever seen the difference between the gizzard of a chicken that eats only whole grain and one tnat eats only mash? The gizzard is much larger in the chicken eating whole grains, and a larger gizzard with lots of work to do is going to be giving off more internal heat where it counts--protecting the vital internal organs in very cold weather. Chickens eating only mash don't really even need grit. Thier gizzards are very inactive.

4. It is very true that the reason my chickens don't eat corn in the winter is because they are eating grass and herbs and insects and berries etc. - all of which they much prefer. These kinds of food however are not really available in the winter. But they do have their choice of many kinds of whole grains and seeds. I very rarely feed prebagged chicken food. In cold weather, especially before bedtime, whole corn is the hands down favorite, even over sprouted wheat and shelled sunflower seeds.

5. Why is it so hard to accept the concept that all creatures know what they like. When you eat a food, don't you know if it makes you feel good, or whether it heats you up or makes you feel ill etc? Chickens and all creatures are no different and in fact are probably even more sensitive and discriminating than us in this area. My chickens even demonstrate an uncanny knowledge of knowing which appropriate medicinal herbs to eat (relishing wormwood at times for example). And yes, I watch my chickens very closely. I am a bird behaviorist, and keep chickens (and many roosters) mostly to try and understand their language, emotions and social relationships. My goal is to make their lives last as long as possible because they get even smarter with age. Watching an eleven year old hen with her chicks is amazing. Chickens are truly a fascinating and extremely intelligent bird. Don't sell them short.

 

[Chris09]

Well dear me Chris09, there are so many things wrong with your rebuttal as well:

1. For one thing, chickens are NOT quite different from other members of the avian world. Their physiology is exactly the same. Poultry scientists however, have been doing their best for years to create a dumbed down freak version of the amazing chicken in order to profit from them as highly efficient meat and egg machines at the least possible input expense.

2. You misunderstand the concept of shivering. It is not something you can see. It is a widespread adaptation used by ALL birds (unlike mammals) to maintain body heat in the winter. If you don't understand the concept, google it and educate yourself.

3. How do you know how much heat a working gizzard gives off? The gizzard does NOT work all the time--only when it has food in it to grind. Have you ever seen the difference between the gizzard of a chicken that eats only whole grain and one tnat eats only mash? The gizzard is much larger in the chicken eating whole grains, and a larger gizzard with lots of work to do is going to be giving off more internal heat where it counts--protecting the vital internal organs in very cold weather. Chickens eating only mash don't really even need grit. Thier gizzards are very inactive.

4. It is very true that the reason my chickens don't eat corn in the winter is because they are eating grass and herbs and insects and berries etc. - all of which they much prefer. These kinds of food however are not really available in the winter. But they do have their choice of many kinds of whole grains and seeds. I very rarely feed prebagged chicken food. In cold weather, especially before bedtime, whole corn is the hands down favorite, even over sprouted wheat and shelled sunflower seeds.

5. Why is it so hard to accept the concept that all creatures know what they like. When you eat a food, don't you know if it makes you feel good, or whether it heats you up or makes you feel ill etc? Chickens and all creatures are no different and in fact are probably even more sensitive and discriminating than us in this area. My chickens even demonstrate an uncanny knowledge of knowing which appropriate medicinal herbs to eat (relishing wormwood at times for example). And yes, I watch my chickens very closely. I am a bird behaviorist, and keep chickens (and many roosters) mostly to try and understand their language, emotions and social relationships. My goal is to make their lives last as long as possible because they get even smarter with age. Watching an eleven year old hen with her chicks is amazing. Chickens are truly a fascinating and extremely intelligent bird. Don't sell them short.

(Carpodacus mexicanus) were substantially below the thresholds for the onset of shivering in the pectoralis muscle. Shivering began in the pectoralis at an ambient temperature of 20°C, while in the gastrocnemius, tibialis and peroneus muscles the corresponding temperatures were -5, -11, and -14°C, respectively.

Now if the pectoralis and or the leg muscles in a chicken is shivering you will see it...

Quote: Unless the gizzard is totally empty it is working all the time, that means even if the gizzard has grit or the least amount of food in it, it is working. The gizzard does not know the difference between food and grit.
I have seen plenty of gizzards in my lifetime some on mash (crumble, pellet and extruded) and some on grain, the size difference is there (not a huge difference) but that is do to size of food being fed not that it is working harder, just like a chicken feed a mash feed has a smaller gizzard than one fed a pellet or extruded feed.

Quote: As said before they eat the corn in the winter to fill there energy needs.

Quote: The reason is simple, I have seen a lot of animals eat a lot of stuff that was not even close to being "good" for them.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I don't live on LI any longer, I live upstate NY. What is Dent feed?

Dent corn is also known as feed corn. "Dent corn," "dent feed corn" a.k.a. "yellow dent corn" this grain is the commercial feed corn that is ground up and added to laying pellets and other animal feeds. What no one seems to know or maybe it's understand is that dent corn's name comes from the little dimples that is in the top of every grain of corn in each row of seeds on every row of grain

.

Also chickens mostly predigest every bite of food while it is in still in their crop or before it even reaches the grit in their gizzard. You don't think that chickens have a wee tiny water wheel inside their innards do you, and it is busy whirling around and around to grind hard cereal gains into stone ground corn meal, grits, polenta, or whole wheat flour do you?

(yellow dent feed corn.)


Yellow dent corn is the preferred feed grain because there are more and bigger grains per ear, making yellow dent corn a more productive corn species.

 

[Diannastarr]

cracked corn Vs whole corn the sad fact is that as soon as you crack a whole grain open the nutrients begin to degrade, Whole grains last much longer,as a whole , i use good old fashion yellow feed corn It still has all the vitality of a whole grain along with a considerable amount of corn oil and nutritious starches that provides energy. .Dent corn as some call it & in new England its called field corn or cattle corn, its a kind of corn that is higher in starch and lower in sugar than table corn, &,we use to grow it on our farm in CT, its a type of corn not usually eaten by people as a vegetable. whole corn is a whole food that has not been cracked open, if whole corn is cracked open it begins the possess of degradation & after a time its no better for any animal then maybe card board or air , but a whole grain has vitality as a whole grain, which has corn oil & starches providing necessary food elements that provide energy. cracked corn has hardly any food value after a wile, i wont feed it, but whole corn fed in winter is a great idea...! i feed it in winter and my hens a mixed flock are very healthy with no changes in eggs production no matter what the season or even wile molting ..!!! they are well supported, plus in summer i feed bread & wild bird seed & extra sunflower seeds & raw oatmeal as a treat, morning & evening it helps to keep egg production up since its all real food and that works well for my ladies in the heat of AZ, but its hard to come by day old bread theses days , since our economy is going south & people are buying it up to eat, so i have taken to buying it for my flock, at the dollar store at $1.00 a loaf, it can really make a big difference in egg production, my mixed flock of SLW NHR BR all 14 of them are producing 10 or more eggs a day , and even wile they are molting & lately as they are going into their 2 nd year the eggs have become sooo much bigger that i can hardly fit them in a regular size eggs boxes...lol. & i had to find ex large egg boxes since our eggs are becoming jumbo size & so as the old saying goes the proof is in the pudding , i would be afraid to stop feeding what im feeding , since its working really well..!!

but dont get me wrong i also feed a layer feed free choice available 24/7, but only as a base feed not a total feed for my free range hens, plus they get fresh apples with the worms in them that have fallen off our apple trees,

& we have scrambled egg Sundays for all our girls , our wonderful flock are like children to us & we hope to have them around for as long as possible , my last oldest flock back in the 70's lived to about 10 years & some were even older & still hatching chicks & laying enough eggs to feed my family of 5 teens , 2 babies & me, all us old chicken farmers know that whole corn is sooo much better then cracked corn & all i have to say about that is thank heaven for all our amazing chickens..!!!