Cottage Rose,
All that may be true but that doesn't change the fact that you get an Easter Egger from crossing a recognized true Ameraucana with any Brown Egg Layer. It also does not change the fact that to trace the origins of the bird back to their starting point is probably impossible. And it doesn't change the fact that a breed is not a breed until the APA or ABA recognizes it as such. I'm not up to speed on the ABA as I don't raise any bantams but I know the APA has strict guidelines on what must happen for a new breed (or even variety of a breed) to be accepted by the APA. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly what those requirements are but they have to do with a minimum number of separate breeders with established flocks that they have maintained for a minimum number of years and can prove they are breeding true to type. I think it's something like 5 or 15 breeders who have sustainable flocks for the past 5 years but I'm not positive.
I can't speak to what John or others have done and you seem to be much more involved with them than I have been or am but I do know that every Ameraucana Breeder that I've talked to - including John - will always recommend "outcrossing" within another Ameraucana variety rather than "crossbreeding". Having said that, John, Michael Muenks, Mike Gilbert and several others are a WHOLE LOT more up to speed on genetics than I am and therefore they know what they're doing and why. That's why John could cross with a D'anver or probably any other bird and still get the results he wants without wrong leg color, feather legs, wrong comb type, wrong confirmation, or you name it. With me, I have to keep it simple and stay within the breed and pretty much even within the variety.
I'm still willing to bet that any of the Ameraucana Breeders who are striving to produce APA/ABA SOP birds and/or SQ birds, would take exception with their eggs being a called "predominantly pale green" with the "occasional" egg being bluish. Any green-tinted egg is most likely the result of an EE with the sole exception being the true Ameraucana that still carries a modifier gene that produces a green egg - which that gene is trying to be bred out.
It is correct to say that really blue eggs "aren't that common" and that is primarily to do with the breed being so recently established, the limited number of people working on the breed, the vast number of people experimenting with the breed, and the vast number of hatcheries, feed stores, etc. that sell Easter Eggers under the various misnomers of Araucana and Ameraucana. Which brings up an important point. When a discussion occurs such as this one about "Ameraucanas", we need to be sure that we are all on the same page. When I talk about "Ameraucanas", I am referring to ONLY those that have been accepted by the APA and the ABC. Everything else is an EE.
That is why I would not recommend just "picking any" breeder on BYC and "go with them". To the contrary, if you are serious about wanting a true Ameraucana, go to the either www.ameraucana.org or http://groups.msn.com/abcshareingplace/fallwelcome.msnw . Look at the Breeders List, determine which variety you want, then contact those Breeders and talk to them! Ask them whatever questions you want about their birds. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to answer them.
As I said previously, all my birds produce a blue egg but they do vary in the saturation color. Diet, environment, stress, and other things I've noticed can make a difference as well. For example, I know that two of the eggs I got from pullets I took to the recent WFF Show laid an egg that was a lighter blue than I get from them at home. I have to think that was either due to the stress of the show, the difference in the food they got there, or a combination of the both.
Ninjapoodles is correct. If you're looking for Blacks or Blues, you can't go wrong with Lisa. She's a serious breeder, has a very nice place, has and has had some wonderful show-winning birds, she's honest, a great gal, and will treat you right.
Chicken7777, to answer your first question, I'd refer you again to the "History" page on the ABC website. To answer your second question, I'd simply say that the number of different answers you get to that question will be about the same as the number of different people you talk to. Many of your questions along those lines may be answered by joining the ABC then looking back through the old Forum posts and topics.
The breed in general is relatively new and I picked the Wheaten and Blue Wheaten variety because it's basically still being developed. I hope to develop my own tri-colored Wheaten that looks like the Wheaten Marans at www.bevsmarans.com . I know that is gonna be an undertaking that I may never accomplish because of my limited genetic knowledge but I'm gonna give it my best shot. It's hard enough just getting what I want out of my existing Wheatens and Blue Wheatens.
So, I'm glad to hear that you've caught the Ameraucana Bug and I look forward to hearing more from you as you travel down this journey. Hopefully this has all been of some help.
God Bless,
All that may be true but that doesn't change the fact that you get an Easter Egger from crossing a recognized true Ameraucana with any Brown Egg Layer. It also does not change the fact that to trace the origins of the bird back to their starting point is probably impossible. And it doesn't change the fact that a breed is not a breed until the APA or ABA recognizes it as such. I'm not up to speed on the ABA as I don't raise any bantams but I know the APA has strict guidelines on what must happen for a new breed (or even variety of a breed) to be accepted by the APA. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly what those requirements are but they have to do with a minimum number of separate breeders with established flocks that they have maintained for a minimum number of years and can prove they are breeding true to type. I think it's something like 5 or 15 breeders who have sustainable flocks for the past 5 years but I'm not positive.
I can't speak to what John or others have done and you seem to be much more involved with them than I have been or am but I do know that every Ameraucana Breeder that I've talked to - including John - will always recommend "outcrossing" within another Ameraucana variety rather than "crossbreeding". Having said that, John, Michael Muenks, Mike Gilbert and several others are a WHOLE LOT more up to speed on genetics than I am and therefore they know what they're doing and why. That's why John could cross with a D'anver or probably any other bird and still get the results he wants without wrong leg color, feather legs, wrong comb type, wrong confirmation, or you name it. With me, I have to keep it simple and stay within the breed and pretty much even within the variety.
I'm still willing to bet that any of the Ameraucana Breeders who are striving to produce APA/ABA SOP birds and/or SQ birds, would take exception with their eggs being a called "predominantly pale green" with the "occasional" egg being bluish. Any green-tinted egg is most likely the result of an EE with the sole exception being the true Ameraucana that still carries a modifier gene that produces a green egg - which that gene is trying to be bred out.
It is correct to say that really blue eggs "aren't that common" and that is primarily to do with the breed being so recently established, the limited number of people working on the breed, the vast number of people experimenting with the breed, and the vast number of hatcheries, feed stores, etc. that sell Easter Eggers under the various misnomers of Araucana and Ameraucana. Which brings up an important point. When a discussion occurs such as this one about "Ameraucanas", we need to be sure that we are all on the same page. When I talk about "Ameraucanas", I am referring to ONLY those that have been accepted by the APA and the ABC. Everything else is an EE.
That is why I would not recommend just "picking any" breeder on BYC and "go with them". To the contrary, if you are serious about wanting a true Ameraucana, go to the either www.ameraucana.org or http://groups.msn.com/abcshareingplace/fallwelcome.msnw . Look at the Breeders List, determine which variety you want, then contact those Breeders and talk to them! Ask them whatever questions you want about their birds. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to answer them.
As I said previously, all my birds produce a blue egg but they do vary in the saturation color. Diet, environment, stress, and other things I've noticed can make a difference as well. For example, I know that two of the eggs I got from pullets I took to the recent WFF Show laid an egg that was a lighter blue than I get from them at home. I have to think that was either due to the stress of the show, the difference in the food they got there, or a combination of the both.
Ninjapoodles is correct. If you're looking for Blacks or Blues, you can't go wrong with Lisa. She's a serious breeder, has a very nice place, has and has had some wonderful show-winning birds, she's honest, a great gal, and will treat you right.
Chicken7777, to answer your first question, I'd refer you again to the "History" page on the ABC website. To answer your second question, I'd simply say that the number of different answers you get to that question will be about the same as the number of different people you talk to. Many of your questions along those lines may be answered by joining the ABC then looking back through the old Forum posts and topics.
The breed in general is relatively new and I picked the Wheaten and Blue Wheaten variety because it's basically still being developed. I hope to develop my own tri-colored Wheaten that looks like the Wheaten Marans at www.bevsmarans.com . I know that is gonna be an undertaking that I may never accomplish because of my limited genetic knowledge but I'm gonna give it my best shot. It's hard enough just getting what I want out of my existing Wheatens and Blue Wheatens.
So, I'm glad to hear that you've caught the Ameraucana Bug and I look forward to hearing more from you as you travel down this journey. Hopefully this has all been of some help.
God Bless,
