Why can't you use Ivermectin in chickens water for cocci , mites ?

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You are right..However Valbazen which is far more effective than Ivermectin for treating internal parasites does have an effect on several species of coccidia.............

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I just bought ivermectin from www.horse.com for $2.39 per tube. I know Zimectrin also contains praziquantel, but that website sells it for $9.89. Anybody that pays $15 - 20 for it is getting seriously ripped off. BTW www.horse.com is the Country Supply catalog people. I have used them for years and been very satisfied.

Here is one of the best explanations of Coccidiosis I ever read
from BYC the other day
it was on "why do things keep happening"
keep this stored so when you have these questions read this good information

Far North Queenslander
New Egg

Many different diseases of chickens show identical symptoms which makes accurate diagnosis very hard

Coccidiosis is caused by coccidia (genus Eimeria), which are single celled parasites that live in the gut wall of their host. They are host specific: turkeys and other species are not infected by fowl coccidia and vice-versa. The different species of coccidia live in different parts of the gut and can be divided into those causing intestinal coccidiosis (the majority) or caecal coccidiosis (one species).

Coccidiosis Caecal Symptoms
In chicks or young birds, droopiness, huddling with ruffled feathers, loss of appetite, retarded growth, and bloody diarrhoea in early stages
It affects their cecum
Mortality is high
Spread from contact with droppings of infected birds. Spread on used equipment, feed sacks, feet o humans and wild birds
An important symptom is blood around the vent or bloody diarrhea

Coccidiosis Intestinal Symptoms
Affects growing or semi mature birds, droopiness, huddling with ruffled feathers, loss in interest in water and feed, retarded growth or weight loss, watery, moucousy, or pasty, tan or blood tinged diarrrhea, sometimes emaciation and dehydration
In mature birds; thin breast, weak legs, drop in laying, sometimes diarrrhea
If affects their intestinal tract
Mortality is limited to high
Spread from droppings of infected birds; spread on used equipment, feed sacks feet of humans and wild birds
An important symptom is blood around the vent or bloody diarrhea

Treatment:
1-teaspoon amprolium (20 percent) per gallon drinking water for 5 days (this is not an antibiotic)
A broad spectrum antibiotic to guard against secondary infections (yoghurt will restore the gut flora of the bird and make this more effective).
Follow this treatment with a multi vitamin supplement (especially A and K)
a regular dose of garlic in their feed also helps and is a great natural wormer.

Spread of the disease
Outbreaks are most common after wet weather or in damp conditions as it activates the oocysts in the soil.
Damp or contaminated litter and overcrowding favour its development.
Most commercial chick starters contain a drug that inhibits coccidiosis, but unless a clean, dry environment is maintained outbreaks can occur. Birds fed diets without preventative drugs are particularly at risk so clean dry litter and adequate space are especially important
If you have soil in your coop turn it, but don’t allow dust to blow everywhere, as this will spread the disease. Sprinkling hydrated lime onto the soil and raking it into the dirt will help to eradicated the problem.

Coccidiosis is spread when one bird eats faecal material from an infected bird, which contains the infective stage of the coccidia (small egg-like bodies called oocysts). Oocysts are ingested when birds scratch and peck at the litter or consume contaminated feed or water. The oocysts in the droppings need moisture and warmth to mature before they can infect other birds, and can do so very quickly (24 hr). Oocysts can remain alive in poultry sheds for more than a year and are very resistant to most disinfectants.

Each oocyst breaks down in the gut to release parasites that multiply into thousands, damaging the gut and causing disease that may lead to the fowl's death.

Beginning five to seven days after infection, thousands of oocysts pass out in the droppings of the bird to continue the life cycle. It is impossible to prevent this spread unless birds are housed so that they have no contact with faeces.

Antibiotics don’t cure Coccidiosis, just help stop the possibility of a secondary infection taking hold of your bird, which is often what ends up killing it.


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"This kills all the cocci and the mites."

I'm sorry but ivermectin is not an anticoccidial. Coccidia are protazoa. What you're possibly having is luck because you keep your chickens clean and healthier because they're not being bombarded by other parasites which lower their immunity and make them more likely to have coccidia.

Honestly, after chick-hood, I never use a coccidiostat (inhibits coccidia, which is what chick starter contains) and thus almost never have had to use a coccidiocide (kills coccidia, which is what Sulmet is). In fact I don't recall ever having had to on adult chickens, ever - even caged.

As an animal owner, well honestly even for our own treatment, it's very important to note the differences between bacteria, protazoa, and parasites like worms, ,versus mites, etc. They have different metabolisms and physical systems and thus are often treated (and diagnosed) differently from one another. I say "often" very purposefully as there are some chemicals which cross treat (like the old fashion sulfas being both anti-bacterial as well as anti-coccidial).

I'm curious about your invermectin use, though, having horses myself. I'm not a big fan of treating as often because of the discussed possibility of developing immunities. I'm more a fan of testing before treating these days. When I do treat with ivermectin, I generally use spot-on. (SO much fun in the summer lol.) I've always felt that I had more control that way and more assurance that each bird was getting an exact does. I really wish there was a way to tell if your program were the sole cause of your success, or again the cleanliness and attention to environment.

Nathalie

By the way, when I talked about using spot-on treatment with ivermectin, I mean poultry - never my horses. My horses get the usual ivermectin pastes for that portion of their parasite treatment.

Incidentally, if you keep up with horse catalogs, they'll often have blow out sales on generic ivermectin. I think one was selling tubes for 80-something cents this week. It's worth signing up for equine and livestock catalog newsletters. It may have been Valley Vet....

Nathalie

Darn I forgot something else...

Great article, Glenda. The one thing I would add is that (mostly in domestic animals) people often get a fecal test for coccidia. However, coccidia are notably difficult to capture even within a fecal because of the mechanisms of reproduction described in the article.

I'm a major supporter of testing before treating for worms and most parasites that can't be visually diagnosed. However, coccidiosis is one of the few times I treat symptomatically.

And of course, any time anything involves the digestive tract, probiotics are called for. There are so many great products available now for livestock due to an enlightenment as to the importance of bacteria in the guts of many animals. Fastrack, Probios, very easy to use - much less expensive than the stuff from the petstore, much more effective because they're often stored better and turned over more quickly. Personally I prefer probios, though since I have exotic birds I have been buying an avian specific probiotic powder that you keep in the fridge. I use it for suspected illness, stress times, and after worming and treating.

I think all this time I have been confusing cocci with the long worms that I believe also cause blood in the poo. I think they are roundworms?? Now that I understand cocci are protozoans it all makes more sense.
Anyway, no roundworm issues in my chickens on ivermectin.

Since I keep the young ones in a long brooder on wire for the first two months with no ground contact, that is probably why I've had no cocci issues.

I'm wondering how often chickens with roundworms are treated with cocci meds and die? Am I correct that they both present with bloody stools?? I had chicks die years ago and upon necropsy had long worms crawling out of them.

Ivermectin is sold in a gel form by Duramet (one of the $2.99 ones) and readily dissolves in water. You can also get it to go into water in paste form but you have to do a lot of shaking in an empty gallon milk jug.

I'm thankful for the info and insight into this, sometimes it feels like you are giving a deposition on here though.

As far as the horses, btw, I purchased a huge former hayfield for my horses last year here in Arkansas. I made sure their guts were as parasite free as I could get them before I put them on this pasture. I keep them wormed! I bought a mare from Kentucky that came up with ivermectin resistant worms( three years ago)! After many bouts of moxidectrin (which is about $10 a dose) for 15 horses, the situation came under control but was really gross for a while. (Long worms crawled in the horses feces- uggh).

Oh I'm jealous of your good pasture! That's like my dream place. I have my horses on low acreage that is shared with the other critters. It's a trick here to keep things worm free, especially because the pasture isn't really much of a pasture as much as a drylot that the horses insist on grazing (despite their free choice bermuda that's really pretty this year thankfully, and some alfalfa).

/sigh Maybe one day.

I console myself with the fact that since I only have four acres, I can have a huge tall chainlink fence with barbed wire on top since we're having coyote issues in the neighborhoof. But often enough I gaze past my fence and wish I were looking at another 20-40 acres of some nice grazing for my babies.

Cheers!

You should move out here! Lots of room, beautiful!!!Here is a little section

Can ride out of my house into millions of acres of Ozark Mountains!

Getting back to post:
Do cocci and roundworms have similiar symptoms?