High coop entrance that raccoons and rodents can't climb

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Welded wire may be the better idea. I wrote a whole thing to Pat on a portable fence but I haven't posted it. I need to make enough of the coop first so I can move the chickens from the house to the garage for their nighttime location. Maybe a portable run will not be as safe as day ranging or I will have to go with a burred dig-prevention barrier (and so I might move this run less often or never).

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Uh, many, possibly most, of the folks on this forum.

Glad I asked.
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Correct. That is one reason I am asking questions.
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What? (Good) research depends on observation or using the observations of others, but you must know that already, having had a scientific career and all, so you probably think I don't know what it means. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Research
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So little faith in me. What I am much more likely to do, is argue with you for a little while, build the most secure coop I am able to (with the materials I have) using none of these hypothetically experimental ideals, then forget about it until I loose interest in poultry farming.

I did say this:
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Hey, if you want to build this whole thing and sink a lot of time and energy and material into it, do it any way you please... note that a few months proves NOTHING about its riskiness to predators (unless of course your birds get et in that timeframe, but even with high predation risk they very well might not).

Notice that is a question, not a statement of intention. And I'm not suggesting doing that to prove it will work, I'm suggesting using a system that I believe will work after a reasonably adequate amount of research has been gathered. Between now and the time I might consider looking into this again (a looooong time), there is a very good chance I will simply learn that a climb-prevention barrier is probably inadequate protection, just by asking, thinking about it, and observing my chickens.

Presently, it *seems* that going higher is a better idea than the S-shaped corridor. The S-shaped corridor would be too difficult to test and this may be unnecessary. Can a coyote jump from the ground to a roof? I don't believe so. If I am correct there, it is something that doesn't require testing. Can a brown leghorn do this from a launch pad that is anywhere that would seem impossible for a predator to get to the coop from? For example, at the same height as the roof but 10 feet from it? This would be easy to test. Could they be trained to do this at dusk? This I could test/train by incrementally raising the coop, putting the rubber flooring I found, on a platform to use as a landing pad, and closing the coop door after the chickens are inside each night. If they don't go in on their own at dusk, I could lower the food rations and entice them with some corn which they will be able to see because they can easily climb the launchpad. If that works, I would have to test the chickens' reaction to predators while they are in a secure cage (using cameras or direct observation) and consult more experienced people, before determining whether the predators would be likely to scare the chickens down. I could do this by replacing the solid door with a door made with 1/2" hardware cloth, to test Bossroo's claim that they will head for the appearance of open space when they see a predator. I don't see how this is any less humane than if the door is solid instead of having the hardware cloth, the only difference is that I might catch something on camera that others may never know had happened with their chickens.
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You have helped me with the landing pad, for example. Although many of the things you have said are just common sense (which I am cable of, believe it or not) it also helps to know that in this forum I'm surrounded by people who are conscientious about animal welfare. In real life the situation is quite the opposite. I hate to be frustrating to people who are only trying to protect my chickens from harm. I am trying to balance the meat/egg addiction I was raised with, with animal welfare. I thought I could do better than a beak-burning factory farm at least, but there is a lot of medical and psychological stuff to learn. I don't have time to explain everything. Maybe I should say, "I abandoned this, this, and this idea" instead of asking more questions and maybe I should NOT describe these as "plans" when I probably won't be doing them unless everybody thinks they sound like good ideas.

I have the design for my coop and it doesn't implement any of these hypothetically experimental ideas.

[Updated to add the parts in bold (among other things).]

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I can tell you two good reasons...

1) Decent animal husbandry
2) MY time, MY money, and MY $2.00 chicken

If I'm not going to give my animals the 100% care/housing that they need then I'm not worthy to have any. IMHO

Best thread ever.

Lumenos,

With all due respect, just listen to the people here who have the knowledge & EXPERIENCE of chicken husbandry.

You really "cant see the forest for the trees".

You are overthinking things & for the sake of success with your "new" & "radical" coop design you are willing to be obstinate and perhaps compromise the safety & comfortability of your birds.

Hey you are gonna do what you want anyway, you just seem the type who will. But seriously, dont you think you may be better with tried & true methods of coop design?
"If it ain't broke DON'T fix it!"

Best of luck to your flock,

Peace,Laura

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I can tell you two good reasons...

1) Decent animal husbandry
2) MY time, MY money, and MY $2.00 chicken

If I'm not going to give my animals the 100% care/housing that they need then I'm not worthy to have any. IMHO

WOW......I couldn't of said it any better.

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Why do you think I am not listening to them? Let's review:
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You are assuming quite a lot about genetic contribution towards instantaneous reaction. I wish you luck but doubt your premise is correct.

She doesn't claim to know the answer to this. There may be only one breed of poultry, and within that, only 1% would be smart enough to stay somewhere they are safe, instead of jumping down to where the predators are. If you are the type of person who runs after the raccoons with a pitchfork every time you see them by the chicken coop, you wouldn't have much experience with observing their reactions.

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People who have some experience with a) poultry behavior and b) predator behavior are giving you their best opinions on the LIKELY results of your setup. It is your choice whether or not to believe your thought-experiments and guesses are likelier to be correct than the estimation of those with actual real-world experience with the critters.

Again, she is saying that something is "likely" and not certain.

Besides that, she presumes that I will be exposing chickens to predators before I have much experience (or the endorsement of those who do), but that is a different issue.[Actually, she wasn't really presuming this, others were. Pat was very helpful and I suppose I should have expressed more appreciation.]

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I can tell you two good reasons...

1) Decent animal husbandry
2) MY time, MY money, and MY $2.00 chicken

If I'm not going to give my animals the 100% care/housing that they need then I'm not worthy to have any. IMHO

WOW......I couldn't of said it any better.

I apologize for giving folks the impression that I was for "exposing" poultry to predators. I made a new thread for discussing animal welfare and other types of enclosures, and posted a reply there.

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You are assuming quite a lot about genetic contribution towards instantaneous reaction. I wish you luck but doubt your premise is correct.

She doesn't claim to know the answer to this. There may be only one breed of poultry, and within that, only 1% would be smart enough to stay somewhere they are safe, instead of jumping down to where the predators are. If you are the type of person who runs after the raccoons with a pitchfork every time you see them by the chicken coop, you wouldn't have much experience with observing their reactions.

Actually I *do* claim to have a fairly good idea of the answer to this.

The experiment has been done, many many many many times, by bajillions of people before you. By people who free-range their chickens, and just let whatever survives breed.

It results in *somewhat* more vigilant chickens, but great numbers of them still get et by predators, and from hearing/seeing the circumstances in which that happens, it is not at all clear to me that there has been gentle selection for more useful *responses* to predators, mainly just gentle selection for earlier *detection*. And I say "gentle" because the resulting chickens ain't really that different, in survival success, from chickens who have NOT had a bunch of generations of selection by predator pressure.

I can't speak to ducks on this issue, but my impression from the flocks I've known is that the situation is pretty similar.

You seem highly invested in convincing yourself that your idea must be useful, and arguing "well you can't PROVE it won't work", rather than taking a balanced view of saying "here are ALL my options, what seems likeliest to be successful".

That being the apparent case, why are you wasting time arguing about all this? You've heard what we all have to say. You have had the opportunity to ask for clarification and all that. Now just go do it, eh? See what happens. COme back in five years and tell us how you like the way it works.

Pat

There are so many great "tractor" or day coop designs out there why reinvent the wheel when its already be invented take the designs that are there use the materials you have and build one as simple as that. I have built a pen/coop and we used chicken wire at the beginning I will never use that stuff for a chicken pen again to flimsy I now use Wired fence much safer and I feel better knowing that my chickens are safe as for flying my stand girl can only get inches off the ground and can not jump or fly that high so I do not see how your landing door thing would work for chickens that can't fly that high. I think Pat had some great points and I always use the Kiss method (keep it simple silly) don't over think things it helps with life.