- Thread starter
- #41
Yeaa! Pat came back!
Quote:
She doesn't claim to know the answer to this. There may be only one breed of poultry, and within that, only 1% would be smart enough to stay somewhere they are safe, instead of jumping down to where the predators are. If you are the type of person who runs after the raccoons with a pitchfork every time you see them by the chicken coop, you wouldn't have much experience with observing their reactions.
Actually I *do* claim to have a fairly good idea of the answer to this.
The experiment has been done, many many many many times, by bajillions of people before you. By people who free-range their chickens, and just let whatever survives breed.
It results in *somewhat* more vigilant chickens, but great numbers of them still get et by predators, and from hearing/seeing the circumstances in which that happens, it is not at all clear to me that there has been gentle selection for more useful *responses* to predators, mainly just gentle selection for earlier *detection*. And I say "gentle" because the resulting chickens ain't really that different, in survival success, from chickens who have NOT had a bunch of generations of selection by predator pressure.
If you wouldn't mind revealing your source for this information, that would be greatly appreciated.
Actual figures of survival rates of free range experiments would be interesting, but this is not exactly the experiment I would be researching. I'm talking about where poultry are trained to go into a coop/roost each night, that is open, but protected by a climb-prevention barrier. If leghorns or muscovies can not be trained to go into this roost/coop then I will figure this out before exposing them to any predators, and I will come back and say "Pat is most righteous and I spent all my money on fresh corn to train those stupid leghorns..."
On the other hand, if they can be trained to go to the rooftop roost/coop at dusk, then the question is, "How many would exit this enclosure when predators were around?" They may exit it because they are enticed by raccoons (who hold their hand in the run), frightened by predators behind the roost/coop, or pushed off/out by the other poultry on a roost bar.
I'm sure someone must have seen leghorns or muscovies on a roost when predators were around, and if they could share this knowledge it may help to answer these questions without any more casualties. If they do tend to panic and push each other off, a more coop-like structure would be required so that they don't fall out of it. I'm sure, at this point, those with more experience would be able to build something that is much more likely to work, than anything I could build.
Quote:
I haven't been abstaining from animal products for the past year or so, just to build an unsafe enclosure to test an idea that I am so uncertain of. How about if I ask some questions of more experienced people first? It is highly likely that someone has tried the very same thing I would be trying. If I can find them, this would save time, effort, and maybe animal suffering.
Quote:
She doesn't claim to know the answer to this. There may be only one breed of poultry, and within that, only 1% would be smart enough to stay somewhere they are safe, instead of jumping down to where the predators are. If you are the type of person who runs after the raccoons with a pitchfork every time you see them by the chicken coop, you wouldn't have much experience with observing their reactions.
Actually I *do* claim to have a fairly good idea of the answer to this.
The experiment has been done, many many many many times, by bajillions of people before you. By people who free-range their chickens, and just let whatever survives breed.
It results in *somewhat* more vigilant chickens, but great numbers of them still get et by predators, and from hearing/seeing the circumstances in which that happens, it is not at all clear to me that there has been gentle selection for more useful *responses* to predators, mainly just gentle selection for earlier *detection*. And I say "gentle" because the resulting chickens ain't really that different, in survival success, from chickens who have NOT had a bunch of generations of selection by predator pressure.
If you wouldn't mind revealing your source for this information, that would be greatly appreciated.
Actual figures of survival rates of free range experiments would be interesting, but this is not exactly the experiment I would be researching. I'm talking about where poultry are trained to go into a coop/roost each night, that is open, but protected by a climb-prevention barrier. If leghorns or muscovies can not be trained to go into this roost/coop then I will figure this out before exposing them to any predators, and I will come back and say "Pat is most righteous and I spent all my money on fresh corn to train those stupid leghorns..."
On the other hand, if they can be trained to go to the rooftop roost/coop at dusk, then the question is, "How many would exit this enclosure when predators were around?" They may exit it because they are enticed by raccoons (who hold their hand in the run), frightened by predators behind the roost/coop, or pushed off/out by the other poultry on a roost bar.
I'm sure someone must have seen leghorns or muscovies on a roost when predators were around, and if they could share this knowledge it may help to answer these questions without any more casualties. If they do tend to panic and push each other off, a more coop-like structure would be required so that they don't fall out of it. I'm sure, at this point, those with more experience would be able to build something that is much more likely to work, than anything I could build.
Quote:
I haven't been abstaining from animal products for the past year or so, just to build an unsafe enclosure to test an idea that I am so uncertain of. How about if I ask some questions of more experienced people first? It is highly likely that someone has tried the very same thing I would be trying. If I can find them, this would save time, effort, and maybe animal suffering.
Last edited:
