Abdominal Draining Advice?!

Okay, got it!


1) What type of bird , age and weight.
Lily is a two year old RIR, although she is lighter than my other RIR's. I have no idea what her weight is, as I don't have a scale. she feels fairly heavy, but she seems a bit emaciated around her keel bone. I'm assuming that most of her weight is from her enlarged abdomen.

2) What is the behavior, exactly.
For the past two weeks or so, she has been hunched over with her tail low to the ground. Two days ago, I noticed her breathing had become labored, like a fish out of water. Now she will either stand very upright like a penguin, with her head reaching high up. Or, she will huddle down low with her wings out and tail bobbing. Her abdomen is extremely swollen and somewhat firm.

3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?
The stance and swollen belly for about two weeks, the labored breathing for two days. Greenish/whitish diarrhea for at least a month.

4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?
No, not like this. I have had poor egg production from the flock for quite some time, and a recent lice infestation. I am treating for worms this month, with the second dose this coming Sunday.

5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
Not anything that I can tell. At the end of March I had some very alarming fleshy/bloody egg shaped things on the poop board for a couple of days, not sure which hen it was. It seemed to resolve itself.

6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
I have absolutely no idea. This spring I have been trying really hard to improve my management practices, as the condition and egglaying of my hens seemed subpar.

7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
Lily is eating and drinking just fine, although the drinking has been not so good since I brought her inside. I have been giving her a mix of Layena and Flock Raiser mixed with milk and water. I also gave her some scrambled egg mixed with yogurt. I have been switching their feed around a bit for the last couple of months, as the had become very picky. I've also eased up on giving them any table scraps, and have pretty much eliminated scratch from their diet. They have free feed oyster shell and grit,although they don;t seem to pick at it very much. I was letting them out to free range a few times a week, but nixed that when I discovered the lice infestation. We were getting some mice coming into the run at night, and I found a couple dead ones that had obviously been picked at by one or more of my chickens.

8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
She has had greenish diarrhea off and on for at least the last month.

9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
I treated the flock for lice with the Adams Flea and Tick Mist just after I noticed her tail dragging. On Mother's Day I administered Wazine to them. Yesterday, I brought her inside and gave her a bath and probed inside her vent. Nothing happened and nothing changed.

10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
Unfortunately, I cannot find a local vet that has experience with chickens. Even so, I couldn't afford one. This leaves any treatment up to me. I am really nervous about trying to drain her belly, even with the very exact instructions given by Country4Ever. I don't have any antibiotics, I'm not sure where to get them, and I'm not sure if I could afford them. The feed stores around here don't seem to carry anything for chickens other than feed and shavings. I had to order my wormers online. I guess if I decide that I am unable to drain any fluid, I would like to know what the n=most humane thing to do for her would be.

11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.
I don't have a picture, I think her condition is pretty well described above.

12) Describe the housing/bedding in use
Lily lives with five of her sisters in a 4x8 house with tow windows and plenty of ventilation, with an attached 17x8 foot run. I use pine shavings in the house.
 
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Does sound like there are a few red flags for some sort of reproductive egg laying problem. Country4ever posted some pretty detailed info, might be worth a shot. But like you illuded to I am not sure that just draining the body cavity will be enough. Something casued that fluid build-up and unless the root of that problem is resolved the condition is highly likely to persist despite draining.

Not having antibiotic access is a bit of a stike against the whole situation too, when things get into places they don't belong within the body infection is going to be a concern.

Good luck with it what ever you do decide to do.
 
Well, whatever I decide to do, I so appreciate all your input. The info Country4ever posted WAS very detailed, and will be extremely helpful if/when I go that route. I don't at all think I can do it on my own, so I would have to convince my hubby to help with it tonight. Not sure if he has the stomach for it.

Would it be possible to sticky the info that Country4Ever gave? It was just so difficult for me to decipher all the posts, and the instructions were so exact I would think that I'm not the only one the might be helpful for?
 
Was anyone else romanced by the naive notion that it was going to be all happy clucking and egg-laying for years to come? I never imagined that I would be dealing with death this early in the game. Two years in, I had hoped for happy old hens in a little retirement home. So sad to be dealing with this, poor Lily. She's laying down on one side, but still so brave.

Honestly don't think I'll be able to poke her, even with hubby's help. Why did I even bother starting this thread? Maybe there's a chicken death support group out there somewhere........


Do you think it might be worth it to try another bath? I can't imagine she's just eggbound, I thought death came in a matter of days with that. She really didn't seem to enjoy the bath I gave her yesterday, I'd hate to put her through another one if there's no use.

Could worms cause this type of abdominal swelling and distress? You know, like a little puppy who's belly is so bloated because it's full of worms? Should I go ahead and give her the Albendazole a few days early? Might it miraculously push a bunch of worms out and cure her?!

Could she just be severely constipated with something? Would an epsom salt flush do anything?

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Tenderkat......
If she has fluid in there, it will feel firm, but you shouldn't be able to feel any firm objects........like a tumor. If your husband doesn't want to help, you can just wrap her in a towel and lay her down on her left side on a table, (cover her eyes), and just poke her in a couple places where its most swollen on the right side...
Hopefully, you'll be able to see what color the fluid is that comes out. If its clear, then you will have to drain her.........or.........put her in a crate and see if the fluid can drain just by gravity. Her bedding will be wet and her abdomen will be smaller.
If you can't bring yourself to drain her completely, then poking her every so often might be enough to keep her breathing better.

If green or other color drains out, then I would be more likely to say that she's on her way out.
Be brave. We all have been afraid to do certain things in the past, but once you do it once, you'll be alot less afraid the next time.

And you're right............I had no idea how much work I would have to do with my chickens............predators, impacted crops, lice, absesses, bumblefoot, internal laying, congenital heart problems, falls, etc., etc., etc. I guess the harder the work it is, the more it shows we care about our chickens! Some people just let them roam, and let them die from predators, infections, etc. If its hard work, then I guess we're going it right!

Be brave.......stick that needle in a couple places and then keep her isolated so you can see if she drains.
 
I just found a local feed store that has an 18 gauge needle. I guess if Lily is brave enough and strong enough to keep chugging along, I should give it my best shot. Thanks for explaining how I can go about this myself. I'm assuming that putting a towel over her head helps her to relax?

Wish ME luck, and wish Lily a strong recovery!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hi Tenderkat,
Good for you! Just know that if you plan on actually taking all the fluid out, you'll have to detach the needle from the syringe to dump it out and then reattach it. Just be careful not to move the needle around. And don't go in very far.
But....if you're just making holes, you won't need to worry about what I just said.
I usually gave an antibiotic the day off the draining and for 2 days afterwards. But chickens are so good at healing, I'm not sure its necessary. Just be very clean about the procedure.
Let us know how it goes!
I'm proud of you for being brave!
 
Lily has gone to chicken heaven. Her last moments were horrible, but she went very quickly. She was my sweetest girl, right from the beginning. I hope she knows that I never meant to do her any harm, but I know she is no longer suffering.

Thank you to all that have lent their support!!!!
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Katherine
 
I'm so sorry to hear this Katherine! I sent you a private message.
You are a good, caring chicken mama and I'm sure Lily had a good life.
 
Thank you Country4ever for your great directions. I am hugely afraid of needles and it's one of my greatest fears. I didn't think I could do this but the love for my chickens helped me. I bought an 18 gauge needle and 12cc syringe at the feed store, used rubbing alcohol to clean the area, and my wonderful hen just laid there on her side while I drained out two full syringes of yellow fluid. I did accidentally on the second try get a little blood instead of fluid, but it didn't stop me from trying it again. Although about 24cc of fluid are out, she is still very full and I'm hoping that some will drain on it's own. But maybe tomorrow I will try again. By the fourth try, she got a little restless so I decided to stop.

I'm crossing my fingers that this will help but I also know that with ascites, she's sick and may die down the road. But at least for now she's feeling better.
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