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It seems to me that post no. 53 is not too far from what hatchery-breeders must practice. Of course, I don't know for sure. But, since almost none breed SQ birds, their 'management' must be less stringent than the Standard/Heritage Breeder. I am guessing this must be how RIRs from hatchery...

I should have mentioned more clearly that, all along, I am envisioning the following hypothetical case: Starting with high quality birds of whatever breed, then letting them breed RANDOMLY, with little selection except for obvious matters, such as deformities, possessed Roosters...... And then...

Quote: I'm glad you said that, Sal. And that is interesting about the wheat and barley. BTW, I hope sustainable agriculture overcomes the mess recent decades have created and becomes the global form for all.

Fellows: I came back to this thread, because I realized this aft./eve. that: 1. I myself rather derailed it by my post no. 23 (Sometime my meditations on data make me wander..........!) 2. I didn't fulfill the little 'plan' I had for this thread in starting it (cf. post 22) So, if anyone is...

Just a final clarification, if i may make one. It was mentioned above that i was 'making assumptions about poultry and poultry breeders'. I am not sure of what is meant by the term 'assumption' as used above. But it often is a none-too-flattering term. ("The assertion that something 'is' or...

Quote: al, again. i agree with you absolutely. i hope you have seen my wholehearted tributes above dedicated breeders to the APA SOP, because they are my honest thoughts. Now, Saladin, I am not a chicken breeding historian. the last few years i have done KC ducks, Ancona ducks, and Muscovy...

Erin~TheChickenLover : I can not believe what some of these people have said to tell you the truth. I keep my chickens as pets that I can carry around and pet and ENJOY. I breed to make pretty healthy birds. I would not cull unless one of my birds was unhealthy. Why does it really matter if...

Quote: Those of us that breed Standard-bred poultry do consider them works of art. This is correct. We also consider them the best interpretation of the breed. Maybe you don't know your poultry history very well? Nothing wrong with that except when you start making assumptions about poultry...

Quote: right on the nose, Al; i think 'standard breeders' are much to be encouraged; all the more so because there are not many of them among the vast population of chicken keepers and backyard breeders. BTW, I hope you are still visiting your 'Holy of Holies' for devotional exercises every...

Quote: I think that's what one might call, at best, an uncharitable reading of the evidence. First of all, show quality and "heritage/standard bred" are by no means equivalent terms: heritage breeds can have all of the qualities which led to them being developed without meeting the SOP for...

So, we could reasonably say that 1. 'Heritage/Standard bred' birds are in fact unable to perpetuate themselves (as to their 'apa standard' or 'albc heritage-definition qualities') 2. It is not surprising that they are pretty rare creatures 3. We should not expect too many people to commit...

thank you. i am super busy right now, and i really want to get back to this thread which i started, but i'll have to wait a little more, as i am trying to 'go somewhere' with this thread, and it will lead into another thread i hope to start about 'heritage birds' and genetics................

i am really really really glad you 'heavyweights' (imo) chimed in here. just what i was hoping for. I WILL ADD ANOTHER QUESTION/REFLECTION LATER. SO PLEASE STAY TUNED. BUT, i can't do it till at least Sat. 7/2, cuz i am visiting my aged parents tmrw. (mon.) to fri. PLEASE CHECK BACK WITH ME...

thank you. anyone for post 10???

So then, i may now ask: Suppose you have, let us say, some non-SQ RIRs. Again we'll suppose that these birds are the F1 of more or less 'heritage' RIRs. In fact, let's call them 'culls from a reliable breeder', okay? Let's say these birds have wrong body type, color too light, maybe warped...

thanks, oldie and welcome to the forum

i would agree. i would also hope for some input from some others thank you!!

I posted this question in the Heritage Fowl thread, but--for some reason--no one even acknowledged it. So maybe this novice can ask this question here as a separate thread. Do such fowl ever put out less than ideal offspring? Such as: Color too light or too dark? Pattern of color a bit or...