Less-than-ideal offspring from 'heritage/standard-bred' chickens?

[punky rooster]

Well said, Chris. My purposes are similar to yours; I want a bird that I can have eggs & meat from. I want a bird that I can look at and like what I see. I want a bird that doesn't attack me whenever I go in the pen. I've found my bird: the Buckeye.
I also will breed my birds to their standard; I feel it’s important for a good breeder to do so. I'm sure I'll have bad years where I only get a few useable birds, and I'll bet I get to a point where I only produce 1 or 2 dozen culls. It will take a while to do so, but that’s part of the fun!
Mitch

 

[Redcap Farm]

Quote:
Very well said also!

Redcap Farm

 

[al6517]

I keep this one or that one for reasons that are my own insight/ reasons. What I see is that a lot of people want instant SQ birds without having to do any work. What is the enjoyment in that


I agree with you on this point, after all it's all in the enjoyment in gaining the knowledge through your own trail & error efforts, now that's rewarding.

 

[jmc]

Fellows:

I came back to this thread, because I realized this aft./eve. that:

1. I myself rather derailed it by my post no. 23 (Sometime my meditations on data make me wander..........!)
2. I didn't fulfill the little 'plan' I had for this thread in starting it (cf. post 22)

So, if anyone is willing to stick with this crab, may I continue from where we were so nicely before I sidetracked............?

Here is my next question, it follows upon my post no. 10:

If one was to breed these 'culls from a reliable breeder of RIRs' and kept doing it--bringing in new blood from time to time--you would wander farther and farther away from the standard, correct?

I am 'assuming'

so!

I wonder HOW far the offspring would veer, like could the color become less 'red' and more buffy/golden even without bringing in another breed?

THIS IS WHAT I WISH I HAD POSTED INSTEAD OF NO. 23

 

[capayvalleychick]

Quote:
This is an interesting question and I'm dealing with a similar problem. I want to breed to the SOP but my birds have faults. The offspring so far just has more faults. I'm trying to find better breeding stock but can't find it. I'm BEGGING Craig Russell to sell me some good stock. He said to keep breeding & culling, build the barn before you paint it, and things will improve but I don't see how.

Kim

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
Depends. They won't as long as you continue to select to the standard.

Ducktang wrote:
My mentor Don Shrider said it best, "Remember, culling and selection are much more important than exactly how the birds are mated."

I think this is an important quote to think about.
Mitch​

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
You just got to keep hatching & culling, Kim.

 

[al6517]

You can still get good birds by getting better blood and just really hatching allot and culling allot, it comes with the turf and it's how it's done.

 

[Stumpfarmer]

Quote:
This is an interesting question and I'm dealing with a similar problem. I want to breed to the SOP but my birds have faults. The offspring so far just has more faults. I'm trying to find better breeding stock but can't find it. I'm BEGGING Craig Russell to sell me some good stock. He said to keep breeding & culling, build the barn before you paint it, and things will improve but I don't see how.

Kim

I think, though that one thing any breeder needs to do is start with the best they can afford and bring in occassional new animals which are also the best you can afford. That means developing an eye for good animals (in 4H and FFA, judging contests are a big thing because that's the best way to learn to see the best animal out of a group). If you go out and buy a flock of SQ fowl without really understanding how they differ from commercial hatchery birds, you can easily end up with a less-than-SQ flock by making mistakes in culling and putting together breeding pens. Buying hatchery birds and really learning which animal is the better, and putting together breeding pens with your better birds, seeing the results, is how you develop your own line over time. Throwing in a much better bird from another breeder (it's hard for me to stop thinking in terms only of better roosters, but the cool thing about chickens is that a better hen can make a big impact in a short time, too) can help correct known faults, but you need to know what those faults are, how to recognize the conformation ones (poor production, agressive temprement, and immune system problems are easy) and what you should look for to correct them is part of the skill set animal breeding demands.

 

[saladin]

I'd like to regress for a moment if y'all will indulge me........

jmc,
The part that I didn't care for in your #1, I said I was regressing, was the word 'perpetuate.'

In my circle that word is used in the same way we use 'sustainable farming' which I am very much in favor. Thru the years my overseas ventures has been to teach sustainable agriculture. When the word is used in that context the 'human factor' is always a given. For example, OP corn must have a human medium to continue. It doesn't just grow on it's own. Plus, in any agricultural endeavor there should be selection.

So, just because those of us that breed to the SOP continually have culls doesn't mean for us that they can't perpetuate themselves; technically, nothing in agriculture can (excepting some forms of wheat and barley). Agriculture is based upon selection and the human factor.

I hope you understand what I was thinking now when I read the post.
doc