10 week old chick lost balance/can't walk

[SilverWolff]

) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.) d'Uccle, 10 weeks weight normal
2) What is the behavior, exactly. He seems to have forgotten how to balance himself on his legs. He can move them just acts like he doesn't know how put them in the right place and balance himself or get up on them. On occasion he will lay flat out with legs in front of him, wings will be out to either side and head/neck stretched out in front of him.
3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms? 3 days
4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms? No
5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma. No
6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation. Fine when I went out to feed in the morning and 2hrs later he was down walking on his elbows/hocks by that night he couldn't figure out how to use his legs.
7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all. Grower feed from Co-op and regular water
8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc. Normal
9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far? I've tried Vit B, ACV, probiotics, honey, added Vit E with selenium today oh and he was also vaccinated for Merek's at the hatchery I got him from.
10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet? No avian vet in my area so this is something I have to treat myself.
11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help. No wound and can get picture if needed.
12) Describe the housing/bedding in use: At the time he was on straw but now he's inside on pine shavings, the 3 other chicks in with him are all fine showing no symptoms.

 

[Isaac 0]

First off separate him into a new away from the others.But close enough so he can here them.The two things that come to mind when you describe the symptoms is spraddled leg and mareks.I would start giving him a few drops of poultry nutridench every ten hours and give water often.You can also offer high protein treats like eggs and tuna.Mareks is common at that age and just because there vaccinated means there immune to mareks it only provides a boost of resistance to it.Is he eating?

Mareks

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseaseinfo/90/mareks-disease/

http://www.chickenvet.co.uk/health-and-common-diseases/mareks/index.aspx

Spraddled Leg

http://www.grit.com/animals/spraddle-leg-aka-splayed-leg-curled-toes-in-chickens-causes-treatements

http://www.grit.com/animals/spraddle-leg-aka-splayed-leg-curled-toes-in-chickens-causes-treatements

 

[SilverWolff]

Yes, he's been eating and has a great appetite. I was afraid of Marek's too at first but he can use his legs but it's just like he can't figure out where to put them or how to balance on them once you get them under him. Watching him closer this morning during while giving him meds I noticed that it's almost like he's having a "seizure" of some sorts? He will be eating and then all of a sudden his wings go out to the sides and his neck goes down and forward. Almost like he feels like he is falling and he is trying to either brace himself or stop himself from falling.

 

[ronott1]

Yes, he's been eating and has a great appetite. I was afraid of Marek's too at first but he can use his legs but it's just like he can't figure out where to put them. Watching him closer this morning during while giving him meds I noticed that it's almost like he's having a "seizure" of some sorts? He will be eating and then all of a sudden his wings go out to the sides and his neck goes down and forward. Almost like he feels like he is falling and he is trying to either brace himself or stop himself from falling.

Separate the chick like was suggested. It is possible that he was injured. Chickens are one of the few creatures that can re grow brain cells. If it is brain trauma(concussion) the chick can make a full recovery. Provide plenty of food and water. The vitamins are a good idea but do not over do it. Kidneys are fragile things with chicks.
Keep up the good work!

 

[SilverWolff]

I separated him and brought him inside as soon as I saw he was off. I made up the water with the vitamins and give him about 4 drops of it twice daily. So hopefully that's not too much? He also could've been injured as he is in with a couple of Polish chicks the same age and I supposed they could've pecked him on top of the head a little too hard?? Not sure cause like I said he was ok at morning feeding then a few hrs later he was wasn't walking right.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I have the exact same thing going on!

Mine is 9 weeks old, it started at 8. Today is day # 8 with no changes in condition. Rapid onset, silkie mix, I feed flock raiser with 20% protein, fermented, free range on pasture and don't do much treats to diminish nutrients.

Thus far I have treated with nutri drench and vitamin E mixed into the feed, since NONE of the other symptoms fit. Recently learned of selenium, which actually reduces the symptoms of vit E def in studies. So selenium may actually be important if it is E def.

I don't think I'm seeing seizures, though he can't balance well enough to drink ANY water and doesn't do so even if I try to assist. Yes he holds his wings out but I fully believe it's to balance. Doesn't look like seizures I saw in the videos at all. Guess the FF is all that's keeping him hydrated. Bright eyes, tail held high, chats with me, vigorously eats, normal stools. Going to have a fecal float done to test for parasites that may be effecting nutrient uptake. Other than that, external parasite, and genetics... I feel at a real loss. No *visible* symptoms of any of them. And he wasn't being picked on until his legs failed. The whole peck on the head thing is more likely is vaulted skull breeds like Silkies or Polish.

If the bird passes or I cull... I will be sending for Necropsy, because I want answers and NEED to know that it isn't Marek's or another disease FOR SURE for the sake of the rest of my flock. May I highly recommend that you do the same? In many cases it is low or no cost, because it serves to protect our food supply chain.

Agreed, the vaccine just helps build resistance and doesn't stop birds from getting Marek's. I have never done it.

Some VERY helpful links... (and 1 just for comparison)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/my-chicken-died-after-a-week-with-leg-paralysis.902418/

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

https://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/AnimalHealth/statevets.aspx

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

As far as I'm concerned... you CANNOT over dose vitamins. Whatever the body doesn't use will be processed through the liver first then the kidney. The body will use what it can or needs and the rest becomes expensive urine. Think about how the vitamins we take are so over the top... like 1000% of your daily vitamin C needs. Seriously it's partly because of how it's chelated whether or not it is absorbed properly. Minerals on the other hand CAN be overdosed very easily and very deadly! Think things like sodium and potassium. Gotta have them to live, too much or too little are both detrimental.

Note that even IF you get the right treatment (say E and selenium), recovery can still be slow coming... so, patience and persistence might be key. I would avoid honey, just like it isn't supposed to be fed to babies under 1 year old, I think because of the possibility it contain botulism (which I doubt). Is your acv with mother? How were the probiotics provided (since that is the point of acv)? Do you know which B's were available that you provided? What % protein is your grower feed and do you give treats? The reason protein % is important is actually because of the amino acids they contain.

Hoping for a positive outcome or at least some answers for us both.

 

[ronott1]

I have the exact same thing going on!

Mine is 9 weeks old, it started at 8. Today is day # 8 with no changes in condition. Rapid onset, silkie mix, I feed flock raiser with 20% protein, fermented, free range on pasture and don't do much treats to diminish nutrients.

Thus far I have treated with nutri drench and vitamin E mixed into the feed, since NONE of the other symptoms fit. Recently learned of selenium, which actually reduces the symptoms of vit E def in studies. So selenium may actually be important if it is E def.

I don't think I'm seeing seizures, though he can't balance well enough to drink ANY water and doesn't do so even if I try to assist. Yes he holds his wings out but I fully believe it's to balance. Doesn't look like seizures I saw in the videos at all. Guess the FF is all that's keeping him hydrated. Bright eyes, tail held high, chats with me, vigorously eats, normal stools. Going to have a fecal float done to test for parasites that may be effecting nutrient uptake. Other than that, external parasite, and genetics... I feel at a real loss. No *visible* symptoms of any of them. And he wasn't being picked on until his legs failed. The whole peck on the head thing is more likely is vaulted skull breeds like Silkies or Polish.

If the bird passes or I cull... I will be sending for Necropsy, because I want answers and NEED to know that it isn't Marek's or another disease FOR SURE for the sake of the rest of my flock. May I highly recommend that you do the same? In many cases it is low or no cost, because it serves to protect our food supply chain.

Agreed, the vaccine just helps build resistance and doesn't stop birds from getting Marek's. I have never done it.

Some VERY helpful links... (and 1 just for comparison)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/my-chicken-died-after-a-week-with-leg-paralysis.902418/

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

https://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/AnimalHealth/statevets.aspx

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

As far as I'm concerned... you CANNOT over dose vitamins. Whatever the body doesn't use will be processed through the liver first then the kidney. The body will use what it can or needs and the rest becomes expensive urine. Think about how the vitamins we take are so over the top... like 1000% of your daily vitamin C needs. Seriously it's partly because of how it's chelated whether or not it is absorbed properly. Minerals on the other hand CAN be overdosed very easily and very deadly! Think things like sodium and potassium. Gotta have them to live, too much or too little are both detrimental.

Note that even IF you get the right treatment (say E and selenium), recovery can still be slow coming... so, patience and persistence might be key. I would avoid honey, just like it isn't supposed to be fed to babies under 1 year old, I think because of the possibility it contain botulism (which I doubt). Is your acv with mother? How were the probiotics provided (since that is the point of acv)? Do you know which B's were available that you provided? What % protein is your grower feed and do you give treats? The reason protein % is important is actually because of the amino acids they contain.

Hoping for a positive outcome or at least some answers for us both.

I hope you figure it out!

Water soluble vitamins flush and are safe. There are vitamins that are not water soluble though. Vitamin A is one and it will kill you and your chickens if taken at too high of a dose. Vitamin D is used as a rat poison. Vitamin E in high doses can make blood too thin. If there is a brain injury(not as common as vitamin deficiency) then that will make it worse.

 

[SilverWolff]

I have the exact same thing going on!

Mine is 9 weeks old, it started at 8. Today is day # 8 with no changes in condition. Rapid onset, silkie mix, I feed flock raiser with 20% protein, fermented, free range on pasture and don't do much treats to diminish nutrients.

I don't think I'm seeing seizures, though he can't balance well enough to drink ANY water and doesn't do so even if I try to assist. Yes he holds his wings out but I fully believe it's to balance. Doesn't look like seizures I saw in the videos at all. Guess the FF is all that's keeping him hydrated. Bright eyes, tail held high, chats with me, vigorously eats, normal stools. Going to have a fecal float done to test for parasites that may be effecting nutrient uptake. Other than that, external parasite, and genetics... I feel at a real loss. No *visible* symptoms of any of them. And he wasn't being picked on until his legs failed. The whole peck on the head thing is more likely is vaulted skull breeds like Silkies or Polish.

If the bird passes or I cull... I will be sending for Necropsy, because I want answers and NEED to know that it isn't Marek's or another disease FOR SURE for the sake of the rest of my flock. May I highly recommend that you do the same? In many cases it is low or no cost, because it serves to protect our food supply chain.

A

Note that even IF you get the right treatment (say E and selenium), recovery can still be slow coming... so, patience and persistence might be key. I would avoid honey, just like it isn't supposed to be fed to babies under 1 year old, I think because of the possibility it contain botulism (which I doubt). Is your acv with mother? How were the probiotics provided (since that is the point of acv)? Do you know which B's were available that you provided? What % protein is your grower feed and do you give treats? The reason protein % is important is actually because of the amino acids they contain.

Hoping for a positive outcome or at least some answers for us both.

I don't think it's really seizures either just a weird thing he does like I said it's more like he feels like he is falling and tries to brace or balance himself. The ACV has the mother in it so that's good. The probiotics are in his water and the honey water was just about an 1/8th of a teaspoon in about 1/8 c of water so pretty diluted and that was just the first night when he couldn't move around anymore. Thought maybe the boost of sugar would give him a little energy. This is fresh honey not the typical store bought stuff so I figured a small amount would be safe. The vitamins are all water soluble, the vitamin B just says B on the bottle but if it's important I can look and see what all is says.

I think the grower feed is 18% but it's been awhile since I checked and no treats as IMO he's too young. He has been out a few times on grass when the weather co-operated we've had a lot of rain here over the past few weeks so he's not been out a whole lot as the ground has been pretty wet and muddy.

I hope we both find a solution soon too, as this is very frustrating. All the videos I've seen nothing matches up to what is going on with him. If he doesn't make it I will try to find some place I can send him too. I really hope he makes it as he is such a sweet boy with a great little personality.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I hope you figure it out!

Water soluble vitamins flush and are safe. There are vitamins that are not water soluble though. Vitamin A is one and it will kill you and your chickens if taken at too high of a dose. Vitamin D is used as a rat poison. Vitamin E in high doses can make blood too thin. If there is a brain injury(not as common as vitamin deficiency) then that will make it worse.

I did not know that, thank you for sharing!

 

[Eggcessive]

Here is a good article about riboflavin deficiency which can cause walking on hocks, curled under toes, and numbness: http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publications/6/diseases-of-poultry/217/vitamin-b2-deficiency/

I agree with Ronott about vitamins. A,E, and D are all fat soluble (unless using a water soluble E.) Those can be overdosed. I am not aware of the vitamin D used in rat poison, since I thought that was actually coumadin, a blood thinner. Vitamin D is used to counteract coumadin.
In dealing with a balance issue or walking on hocks, I would concentrate on B complex vitamins, which are hard to overdose because of being water soluble. Make sure that your vitamins contain riboflavin (B2,) and you can even dissolve 1/2 B Complex tablet into the food once a day. Beef liver chopped and kept in the freezer, and a small amount given once daily is a great source of B vitamins. If using NutriDrench the maximum dose is 3 ml once a day. Just read the labels.