16% layer feed vs 22% layer feed

[RusticRocks182]

Oh, and the AA profile on that feed is very good - it really is a multi-breed feed. Those Lys and et levels are intended to support good breast muscle development, strong connective tissues, good immune systems - they clearly had waterfowl in mind. Suspect, though they don't say so on the guaranteed nutrition label, that it has better than (chicken) typical levels of niacin as well.

I've used Tucker Milling feeds before - good numbers, wasn't displeased with the way my birds did. Wasn't really impressed, either, but I was paying for their non-GMO, because my egg buyers were willing to pay that premium. When I stopped selling eggs to those buyers, I stopped using that feed and went to a less expensive, higher protein feed for my hatchlings and adolescents that resulted in greater growth in the first weeks, generally better put together birds - but that was the difference between moderately expensive 18% non-GMO starter and less expensive 24% "who knows" starter feed. It wasn't a fair fight.

We are paying $17.48 for 50 pounds, for 22% Show Flock and the bantams are doing well as I can tell. If you will, can you answer another question, we have been feeding 28% starter to our chicks also sold by Tucker Milling, is that to high of protein for bantam chicks?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

We are paying $17.48 for 50 pounds, for 22% Show Flock and the bantams are doing well as I can tell. If you will, can you answer another question, we have been feeding 28% starter to our chicks also sold by Tucker Milling, is that to high of protein for bantam chicks?

No - though you are at a level they likely don't benefit from it, meaning excess protein is likely being deposited as urates and excess nitrogen (ammonia),

But "too high", no, not as in dangerous, merely "too high" as in probably more than they require for optimum health.

I raise mine on 24%, they are dual purpose mutts, but not banties. If I routinely raised meat birds, I'd look for other options. I probably should for my turkeys, but only have 4 and I'm not keeping them long - just until they are sized to make a good meal for the wife and I.

and I will say that you should take all of the above with a grain of salt. There are essentially no studies on bantams, and I have no experience with them personally. The above is either the results of study with production birds, production meat birds, or the collective experience of a lot of us raising dual purpose mutts in dissimilar conditions. The biological processes are the same - but a bantam's actual needs? I'm assuming they are similar to other dual purpose chickens with substantial feather/mass ratio, and that they eat less per day. But that's assumptions on my part.

 

[RusticRocks182]

No - though you are at a level they likely don't benefit from it, meaning excess protein is likely being deposited as urates and excess nitrogen (ammonia),

But "too high", no, not as in dangerous, merely "too high" as in probably more than they require for optimum health.

I raise mine on 24%, they are dual purpose mutts, but not banties. If I routinely raised meat birds, I'd look for other options. I probably should for my turkeys, but only have 4 and I'm not keeping them long - just until they are sized to make a good meal for the wife and I.

and I will say that you should take all of the above with a grain of salt. There are essentially no studies on bantams, and I have no experience with them personally. The above is either the results of study with production birds, production meat birds, or the collective experience of a lot of us raising dual purpose mutts in dissimilar conditions. The biological processes are the same - but a bantam's actual needs? I'm assuming they are similar to other dual purpose chickens with substantial feather/mass ratio, and that they eat less per day. But that's assumptions on my part.

I have definitely noticed the excessive ammonia smell.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I have definitely noticed the excessive ammonia smell.

A couple other things can contribute to strong ammonia smells - water/damp/muddy grounds most prominently - but given what you are feeding your birds, I doubt you are letting the droppings pile up on damp/wet grounds.

I'm inclined to think its excess,wasted protein contributing, and suggest dropping the protein levels some. If its available to you, and at similar price point, recommend you try some on the Tucker Milling Show Flock Developer 20%. Compare the results. I expect you will have similar growth of your chicks, very good looking birds, and less ammonia smell.

 

[RusticRocks182]

A couple other things can contribute to strong ammonia smells - water/damp/muddy grounds most prominently - but given what you are feeding your birds, I doubt you are letting the droppings pile up on damp/wet grounds.

I'm inclined to think its excess,wasted protein contributing, and suggest dropping the protein levels some. If its available to you, and at similar price point, recommend you try some on the Tucker Milling Show Flock Developer 20%. Compare the results. I expect you will have similar growth of your chicks, very good looking birds, and less ammonia smell.

No, it's not excessive poop piled up or wet inside the run or coop. It's like you say I believe, high protein levels. I will take your suggestion and try another feed with less protein. I would like to give them good feed but I think it is a little much by your explanation.

 

[RememberTheWay]

This is a good feed. I've seen better.

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Tucker millings game bird line is slightly better. You could use the breeder/layer game bird formula. Reason I like that one better is because of the animal protein used in it and the methionine and lysine levels. Don't remember how they compare to this one, but I do remember they don't use animal protein in the show flock line only the game bird.

But to be perfectly honest this is a decent feed and if it works and is affordable keep using it. If you wanted to up the nutrition maybe look into Fertrells breeder supplement? Kalmbachs Flock Raiser and Meat Bird start to finish are also good feeds.

 

[RememberTheWay]

No, it's not excessive poop piled up or wet inside the run or coop. It's like you say I believe, high protein levels. I will take your suggestion and try another feed with less protein. I would like to give them good feed but I think it is a little much by your explanation.

If you want to switch to less protein adding a supplement for the amino acids will help to make the feed more complete. But it's just what I would do