1st time, looking for help

[Brisephine]

*edited to add plan info*
We are planning on meat birds in the spring, I'm looking for suggestions on breed and where to purchase.

I've heard people say that Cornish crosses have been bred for growth they've lost flavor, and have heard that freedom rangers take too long to get to butcher weight and may not be the best tasting.

I feel like I almost need to try a couple of each and see

So yeah, open to any experiences, suggestions, advice or things you wish you did differently the first time around
Also I'm inclined to say no to the mareks vax since they don't have a long life span and we'll be eating them, correct?


We live in a rural area, we have 5 acres our neighbors have another 5 (mix of yard/woods). The plan is to raise them the first few weeks on heat in an old chicken coop (small shed building) then have them in tractors moving around the property until processing. I use Sunrise feed and would like to use their soy-free option. Two families are going in with us in this endeavor so we have help with the labor. I'm thinking maybe 60ish to start? 20per family?

Thanks to anyone who contributes! This community is so helpful

 

[U_Stormcrow]

This deserves a really lengthy answer I don't have time to post this AM, running late.

So I'm writing here as reminder to me, and to bring attention to this thread from some of those who follow my posts and can answer this question better than I.

Will try to make time at lunch, or this evening, after the feed store.

Welcome to the Poultry equivalent of "new car buying". So far, your've established you need a truck ([x] broiler/ranger) or a cargo van (Cx - Cornish Cross), not a sedan ("dual purpose") or a sports car ("production layers"). We will have questions. and opinions. Only you, and experience, will determine what will ultimately work best for your needs, resources, management, and circumstances.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Cornish Cross are what you buy at the store. They are bred to pack on a lot of meat with a great feed to meat conversion rate. They are white feathered so you get a pretty carcass when you pluck them. They grow so fast that if they are not butchered at 6 to 8 weeks they can die of a heart attack or their skeleton (mostly legs) can break down. The reason some people consider them bland tasting is that a cockerel's hormones during puberty flavor the meat. Cornish Cross are butchered before puberty. Some of us like that taste, some don't. Read that as somebody else's personal opinion. You may feel differently.

Rangers are bred to be butchered around 12 weeks. They grow slower than Cornish Cross and may not make it to puberty. You can delay butchering them a few weeks if you wish. The feed to meat conversion rate is not as good as their Cornish Cross cousins.

Some of us raise dual purpose. These are the chickens your pioneer forbearers raised for eggs and meat, though breeding has improved some. They are the least efficient of the "meat" chickens.

There are details on how to feed and manage all of these. If you decide on one get back to us and we can go into details. Or when you have more questions, just ask.

We are each individuals with different goals, facilities, climates, management techniques, and a lot of other different things. What works for me may not work that well for you. I strongly support trial and error. With things like this, try a few different things and see what works for you. In this case you can eat your mistakes.

Good luck!

 

[Penpal]

I would suggest that you get both Cornish X and Rangers. Also some large meat birds that take longer to grow. Run an experiment. You already know that the Cornish have the best feed to rate ratio. But in the summer your other birds will be eating bugs and leaves so the feed ratio will be better than just commercial feed. Taste may also be a factor. Some people will prefer the Cornish because it tastes like chicken is supposed to if they've never had anything else. Some will prefer the rangers, others will prefer the other.

If you have some variety you won't be tied to having all your birds butchered at once.

You could try adding Australorp, which get large but take longer to mature, which gives you bug eaters all summer.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

going to be after work (and feed store trip), sorry. Waiting for one of my goats to pop, was out checking up on her instead of eating lunch. (Not yet). Unsure why she insists on kidding during the coldest days of the year.

 

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

Before I can give my opinion:

How many do you plan to get, and are you in a rural or urban/suburban setting?

 

[Brisephine]

Before I can give my opinion:

How many do you plan to get, and are you in a rural or urban/suburban setting?

I'll edit the post to include that, thanks

Rural, we have 5 acres (wooded/yard) and our neighbors have another 5. We haven't set on a number, I'm thinking realistically between around 60? We're going in with 2 other families. The plan is to raise them in an old chicken coop (small shed building) and then put them in tractors to move around the properties. I have laying hens and want to keep them separate to help my mindset when it comes to process.

 

[gimmie birdies]

I have tried all 3- cornish, rangers, and Fry pan bargains which are just full sized roosters.
The cornish were best for just eating, when processed at 6 weeks. (I did adopt cornish, from a neighbor who just opened a gate and let them go, those I let grow out, till they passed, they were just huge and gross, I could not process them for my dog. ranger we fine to process at 12 weeks. FPB I would process for my dog. The younger the better.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and finally... I'm back, though late.

To continue my analogy. We'll start w/ the cargo van. It holds a lot, has no capacity for extra performance, ubiquitous, white, slap a label on it, you're done. Gets the job done.

Cx (aka "Frankenchickens") or Cornish Cross are the infamous "supermarket" bird. They have been genetically selected over generations to, essentially, not stop eating, to favor a "double breast" (because Americans like white meat), and to pack muscle mass ("meat") on faster than the skeleton structure can (in some cases), support it. Their interest in foraging is near non-existent, they are the most stupid birds I've ever raised, and they are described by some as "bland and flavorless", also "tender". That's a factor of how they are raised (lots of corn, eating not stop, barely moving) and age - they grow fast and are butchered younger than anything else.

For feed efficiency, can't be beat. Can be overwhelming for new owners, because they need to be butchered early and at once - you don't benefit much from older Cx in rapid weight gain (though they will continue to put on weight) - that can be a lot of birds to butcher, clean, chill and start to rest on a single day. If you don't butcher early, because Cx have been bred to favor weight gain over everything (including long term health) you can start losing birds, often to injury or behaviors arising out of their weight. Slipped joints, not moving and lounging in droppings, infections from bumblefoot/body penetrations.

They can be raised in tractors, will take on a bit more flavor that way, slight decrease in weight gain (extra activity) offset by the contents of whatever they are tractored over. New owners not moving tractors frequently enough can be a problem. Also, you need to know what in the ground you are tractoring over. A free range bird will not eat to excess anything likely to do them short term harm. A hungry Cx (and they are ALWAYS hungry) will eat anything in front of it - so if you park them on ground full of things bad for chickens in quantity, good chance your Cx will eat it.

W/i those limits, a Cx gets big fast, and produces exactly what you would expect if you were to buy at the grocery instead. and they will be more expensive than the cheapest bulk bags of grocery store birds, regardless - you can't compete on economies of scale.

[Colored] Broilers (also "Slow" Broilers) and [Descriptor] Rangers are like trucks. Lots of performance, but can't hold as much. A little easier to customize.

In essence, whether its called a Red Broiler, a Slow Broiler, a Freedom Ranger, Red, Ranger, Rudd Ranger, etc the idea is the same. A meat bird which doesn't put on meat at the freakishly fast rate of a Cx, with fewer health concerns, and some capacity to forage on its own for improved flavor, less supermarket-like texture. Meaning older butchering age, and a little more flexibility in when to butcher - typically anywhere from 8 - 14 weeks.

In theory, anything labeled [something] Broiler should favor the early side of that timeframe, be a little heavier, and a little less likely/able to forage/free range than a bird sold as [something] Ranger - favoring the farther end of that time scale, and more able to forage on its own, meaning more flavor, more texture, often slightly smaller (but still good) size. In practice, I'm not convinced that's the case, but I don't raise them myself, and there are so many variables involved that anecdotes are just that - anecdotes. No common basis for comparison.

IF you are tractoring, a colored broiler or something Ranger is probably better pick than Cx, and a little more forgiving if all the neighbors can't get together on culling weekend, lack for space in the fridge, etc. and of those choices, because tractors tend to be small (else you can't easily move them), I'd lean towards a slow broiler type over the Ranger as a first time meat bird.

as a final comment, due to the time commitment and space requirements, many people raise meat birds several times a year, rather than all at once. Suggest you cut your number almost in half - 40 birds. Raise those as a batch between your neighbors. See how it goes. Expect a couple losses. Based on that, you know what needs to change, how many birds to order for next time, and if you want to change things up or fix them up to correct any issues from the first batch. You might also consider 20 "slow broilers", 20 "something rangers" from the same company as a single order, see which bird works best for you. In later years, you can compare similar birds form other companies, dial in the best bird for your needs and circumstances.

My thoughts only, feel free to disregard. My birds are small sedans, not trucks or vans, certainly not sports cars. Great at nothing, good for little, get me from here to there...

 

[Brisephine]

and finally... I'm back, though late.

To continue my analogy. We'll start w/ the cargo van. It holds a lot, has no capacity for extra performance, ubiquitous, white, slap a label on it, you're done. Gets the job done.

Cx (aka "Frankenchickens") or Cornish Cross are the infamous "supermarket" bird. They have been genetically selected over generations to, essentially, not stop eating, to favor a "double breast" (because Americans like white meat), and to pack muscle mass ("meat") on faster than the skeleton structure can (in some cases), support it. Their interest in foraging is near non-existent, they are the most stupid birds I've ever raised, and they are described by some as "bland and flavorless", also "tender". That's a factor of how they are raised (lots of corn, eating not stop, barely moving) and age - they grow fast and are butchered younger than anything else.

For feed efficiency, can't be beat. Can be overwhelming for new owners, because they need to be butchered early and at once - you don't benefit much from older Cx in rapid weight gain (though they will continue to put on weight) - that can be a lot of birds to butcher, clean, chill and start to rest on a single day. If you don't butcher early, because Cx have been bred to favor weight gain over everything (including long term health) you can start losing birds, often to injury or behaviors arising out of their weight. Slipped joints, not moving and lounging in droppings, infections from bumblefoot/body penetrations.

They can be raised in tractors, will take on a bit more flavor that way, slight decrease in weight gain (extra activity) offset by the contents of whatever they are tractored over. New owners not moving tractors frequently enough can be a problem. Also, you need to know what in the ground you are tractoring over. A free range bird will not eat to excess anything likely to do them short term harm. A hungry Cx (and they are ALWAYS hungry) will eat anything in front of it - so if you park them on ground full of things bad for chickens in quantity, good chance your Cx will eat it.

W/i those limits, a Cx gets big fast, and produces exactly what you would expect if you were to buy at the grocery instead. and they will be more expensive than the cheapest bulk bags of grocery store birds, regardless - you can't compete on economies of scale.

[Colored] Broilers (also "Slow" Broilers) and [Descriptor] Rangers are like trucks. Lots of performance, but can't hold as much. A little easier to customize.

In essence, whether its called a Red Broiler, a Slow Broiler, a Freedom Ranger, Red, Ranger, Rudd Ranger, etc the idea is the same. A meat bird which doesn't put on meat at the freakishly fast rate of a Cx, with fewer health concerns, and some capacity to forage on its own for improved flavor, less supermarket-like texture. Meaning older butchering age, and a little more flexibility in when to butcher - typically anywhere from 8 - 14 weeks.

In theory, anything labeled [something] Broiler should favor the early side of that timeframe, be a little heavier, and a little less likely/able to forage/free range than a bird sold as [something] Ranger - favoring the farther end of that time scale, and more able to forage on its own, meaning more flavor, more texture, often slightly smaller (but still good) size. In practice, I'm not convinced that's the case, but I don't raise them myself, and there are so many variables involved that anecdotes are just that - anecdotes. No common basis for comparison.

IF you are tractoring, a colored broiler or something Ranger is probably better pick than Cx, and a little more forgiving if all the neighbors can't get together on culling weekend, lack for space in the fridge, etc. and of those choices, because tractors tend to be small (else you can't easily move them), I'd lean towards a slow broiler type over the Ranger as a first time meat bird.

as a final comment, due to the time commitment and space requirements, many people raise meat birds several times a year, rather than all at once. Suggest you cut your number almost in half - 40 birds. Raise those as a batch between your neighbors. See how it goes. Expect a couple losses. Based on that, you know what needs to change, how many birds to order for next time, and if you want to change things up or fix them up to correct any issues from the first batch. You might also consider 20 "slow broilers", 20 "something rangers" from the same company as a single order, see which bird works best for you. In later years, you can compare similar birds form other companies, dial in the best bird for your needs and circumstances.

My thoughts only, feel free to disregard. My birds are small sedans, not trucks or vans, certainly not sports cars. Great at nothing, good for little, get me from here to there...

I really appreciate the time and thought you invested to reply, thank you. I've been thinking that trying a few breeds would probably be best, see what we like/don't like.

I've fallen into "chicken math" with my egg chickens I wasn't thinking we can do this multiple times a year. I know there will be a learning curve and adjustments to be made along the way, I know we'll learn as we go I like to try and research and "plan" as much as possible beforehand.