2 Soft Shell Eggs in a Row?!

[DocB]

Ok cool, that’s what I was thinking. If she still had a problem while on layer feed, I would have thought otherwise and looked in to the other things DocB was mentioning. But this silly girl just can’t tell that she needs more calcium. Good advice on giving all flock during winter months! Hadn’t thought of that. Thank you

She is probably not a silly girl but just needs the right Calcium(Ca) to phosphorous(K) ratio in her diet. Too much Calcium can produce soft shells also since it creates an imbalance in the Ca/K ratio.
Here is a link for a more detailed explanation. The ratio also changes significantly when the hen starts laying. Without the right amount of phosphorous the calcium will not be absorbed.

 

[SJsChickies]

She is probably not a silly girl but just needs the right Calcium(Ca) to phosphorous(K) ratio in her diet. Too much Calcium can produce soft shells also since it creates an imbalance in the Ca/K ratio.
Here is a link for a more detailed explanation. The ratio also changes significantly when the hen starts laying. Without the right amount of phosphorous the calcium will not be absorbed.

This is the breakdown of the food she was on while laying soft shells and had free feed oyster shell. Is the phosphorus too low? Also, how come the other 3 layers were on this same feed with free feed oyster shell and never laid a soft shelled egg? Thank you for all your information! I like to be properly informed

 

[DocB]

This is the breakdown of the food she was on while laying soft shells and had free feed oyster shell. Is the phosphorus too low? Also, how come the other 3 layers were on this same feed with free feed oyster shell and never laid a soft shelled egg? Thank you for all your information! I like to be properly informed

I forgot to include the link to the article about the Ca/P ratio in my last post. Sorry.
The food you are feeding does not have the right ratio of Ca to P for laying hens. Here is a portion of the article:

The pullet's requirement for calcium is relatively low during the growing period. But once the first eggs are produced, the need is at least four times as great, with practically all the increase being used for the production of the eggshell. Therefore, while the ratio of approximately 2:1 calcium to non-phytate phosphorus (by weight) is desirable for most poultry diets, once the birds are in-lay, the ratio should be between 8 and 12:1 calcium to non-phytate phosphorus. As a percentage of diet, calcium should increase from 2.5 percent to 5 percent. Interestingly, the requirement for calcium is not constant throughout the day.

Individual birds will absorb and metabolize the calcium and phosphorous at different rates depending on different factors ie, hormone status, amount of feed ingested, metabolic rate, other micro-nutrients available etc.
So I think the first thing you should do is change food to one that has a calcium to non-phytate phosphorous ratio of 8-12:1 and offer oyster shell flakes on the side. Stay away from extras that tie up Ca like Spinach and other dark leafy greens. Check Google for"foods that interfere with calcium absorption in chickens." Check the bag of food for an expiration date. Every bag should have a use by date or manufactured date of some sort. Keep in a cool dry place. Buy from a vendor who orders frequently enough in the summer so his stock does not sit in a hot warehouse for weeks and weeks. Or it is stored in a climate controlled area. The nutritional value deteriorates considerably with time and exposure to air, heat and moisture. The ideal time is to use the bag within 3 to 6 months. Yes, it is safe to feed older feed but you will not be getting the best nutritional value the older it gets. This will affect your egg quality and quantity and no amount of supplements or probiotics will make up for it. Spend your money on higher quality feed more frequently, store it properly, and you won't need to spend it on supplements and medication etc.

The link to the reference article is: https://ucanr.edu/sites/default/files/2020-4/323187.pdf
Good luck
Dr B

 

[FreedomFarmer]

Since you all seem to be focused on the calcium issue and the problems with soft shelled and abnormal eggs continues with no real identifiable pattern, I suggest you might want to try a different approach. First I would stop trying this that and the other supplements assuming it is calcium or just young birds. It might be the feed. Maybe the formula has been changed, maybe the feed has been exposed to extra high temps which will cause problems with absorption and bioavailability. Some of the "treats" people feed will interfere with Calcium absorption.
Certain foods can interfere with calcium absorption, reducing the body's ability to utilize this essential mineral. These foods include:

Foods High in Oxalates: spinach, rhubarb, beet greens, and sweet potatoes.
Sometimes supplements and "treats" can cause too much calcium to be absorbed. Calcium absorption is also influenced by dietary levels of phosphorous and vitamin D3. Phosphorous is important for eggshell quality and bone health. Calcium and phosphorous must be balanced for optimum health, as too much or too little phosphorous can interfere with calcium absorption.
I would suggest an organic feed with an 18-20% protein, and no other treats or supplements for now. Organic since you never know what chemicals have been used on the ingredients and some may cause variable problems within each batch and even from bag to bag. I have seen certain brands tend to cause more frequent problems than others. Also make sure the birds have been recently dewormed and checked for any external parasites. It could be parasites, or stress. Stress can cause many problems with a bird's health and well being which will affect egg quality. If none of these changes improve the egg quality I suggest consulting an avian veterinarian or a university extension program.
(I am a veterinarian)

@DocB Thank you for chiming in. It is good to know we have a veterinarian on board here.

In @SJsChickies reply she mentioned out of all the chicks she has only one has the egg issue. Mine is the same. I have one young one out of eight of various egg laying ages with the egg issue. Would that indicate a genetic abnormality of some sort?

Also, about deworming, I have decided to do maintenance deworming spring and fall because mine have had round worms twice this year. I think maintenance deworming is recommended but I don't know if that is a fact. And I read the same dewormer shouldn't be used every time so a resistance to the dewormer making it ineffective does not occur. What are your thoughts on doing maintenance deworming regardless of signs of worms or not and rotating the type of dewormer each time?

 

[Mother of Chaos]

She is probably not a silly girl but just needs the right Calcium(Ca) to phosphorous(K) ratio in her diet. Too much Calcium can produce soft shells also since it creates an imbalance in the Ca/K ratio.
Here is a link for a more detailed explanation. The ratio also changes significantly when the hen starts laying. Without the right amount of phosphorous the calcium will not be absorbed.

In your experience, can insufficient vitamin D also affect shell quality? (Sufficient dietary Ca, but insufficient vitamin D for proper absorption)

 

[DocB]

In your experience, can insufficient vitamin D also affect shell quality? (Sufficient dietary Ca, but insufficient vitamin D for proper absorption)

Absolutely

 

[DocB]

@DocB Thank you for chiming in. It is good to know we have a veterinarian on board here.

In @SJsChickies reply she mentioned out of all the chicks she has only one has the egg issue. Mine is the same. I have one young one out of eight of various egg laying ages with the egg issue. Would that indicate a genetic abnormality of some sort?

Also, about deworming, I have decided to do maintenance deworming spring and fall because mine have had round worms twice this year. I think maintenance deworming is recommended but I don't know if that is a fact. And I read the same dewormer shouldn't be used every time so a resistance to the dewormer making it ineffective does not occur. What are your thoughts on doing maintenance deworming regardless of signs of worms or not and rotating the type of dewormer each time?

We have a saying "don't look for zebras". So no, it is most likely not genetic.
Maintenance deworming can be beneficial, especially if you know you have a parasite issue in your environment that your hens are continually going to be exposed to. You will never eliminate round worms from a contaminated area. So maintenance deworming helps.
Rotating dewormers is essential to prevent resistance. Best time to deworm is shortly before laying season begins and again in the fall when laying season declines. Even if you use artificial lighting, every 6 months is best. I also recommend having the stool checked by a veterinarian once a year so you know exactly what internal parasites you are dealing with. Even if the roundworms do not show up in the yearly check you know they are in your environment and need to continue to treat. Use the appropriate treatment recommended by the AVIAN veterinarian. Home remedies generally do not work and only delay getting rid of the parasite. The best way to test your home remedy is to recheck a stool sample in 2 months to see if it has worked.
Coccidia is another story. It is not an ascarid(round worm). Requires a whole different treatment and prevention protocol.

 

[DocB]

We have a saying "don't look for zebras". So no, it is most likely not genetic.
Maintenance deworming can be beneficial, especially if you know you have a parasite issue in your environment that your hens are continually going to be exposed to. You will never eliminate round worms from a contaminated area. So maintenance deworming helps.
Rotating dewormers is essential to prevent resistance. Best time to deworm is shortly before laying season begins and again in the fall when laying season declines. Even if you use artificial lighting, every 6 months is best. I also recommend having the stool checked by a veterinarian once a year so you know exactly what internal parasites you are dealing with. Even if the roundworms do not show up in the yearly check you know they are in your environment and need to continue to treat. Use the appropriate treatment recommended by the AVIAN veterinarian. Home remedies generally do not work and only delay getting rid of the parasite. The best way to test your home remedy is to recheck a stool sample in 2 months to see if it has worked.
Coccidia is another story. It is not an ascarid(round worm). Requires a whole different treatment and prevention protocol.

As far as the one chicken with the egg issue. Re-evaluate your food.
I suspect it is a nutritional imbalance since you are feeding all different ages of birds. Just because the large print on a bag of food says it is for "all flock" or "layer food" does not mean it has the right Ca/P ratio or the right Ca% for the age or stage of laying you need. Check the analysis of the ingredients on the bag. And any "best by" or "manufactured by" dates. Consider a new bag if more than 4 months old. Try a test with a fresh bag for two or 3 weeks and see if you notice a difference. If so, take the bad bag back and let your supplier know. They may not realize they bought (or sold) old food.