3 dead chickens

[bekkers]

ok, so if it was poisoning wouldn't the slightly older more robust show 'some' signs of problems as well? I guess I am confused by how they seem alight (I checked them and moved the ark while they were sleeping) either way. If it was the heat, how could those three drop dead and these 3 be ok, and if it was poison, likewise. Were these 3 too smart to take the poison? It is hard to believe someone would really do that without reporting us or doing something else first. My husband bagged the three bodies, but if we want the state university to check it out I will need to drive 3 hours with them in the car (with my baby and toddler) each way or handle them to somehow package them for mailing, which I can hardly imagine. I want to do the right thing, but it seems somewhat futile in this situation. The only case in which there is a good outcome for the effort/expense and stress in if it was a disease that I can help the others avoid. Even if they find that it was poison we could file a police report of something but I doubt they would get anywhere.

sigh. I will continue to think about it and read as much as I can tonight, and watch the other birds closely tomorrow. Thanks again everyone.

one other thought, could this have been b/c of several cumulative days of extreme heat? Like, would they younger birds have become more run down and prone to a problem b/c of the weather we have been having? Though again, the older reds have just been hanging out with them eating and drinking the same, but they seem allright. hmmm.

--Rebekah

 

[Eggs4Sale]

You've seen how chickens scramble for treats. Throwing in 10 treats doesn't mean 10 chickens ate them. The only sure way to know is to cut them open and see what's in the crop or gizzard, but you will likely not be interested in doing that. But the BB shot deal is true, also. A BB hole would be easy to miss on a still-feathered bird.

If you must keep the chickens in the same situation, maybe at the very least you could put a sign near the cage saying "You are being videotaped."

 

[threehorses]

I'm very sorry to hear about the mysterious loss of your three birds. How heartbreaking to find such a thing, particularly with eerie notes being sent by someone.

I would also consider heat, except you said it was cooler. I also had to think about the other birds possible haranguing the younger birds away from the water and shade, but that doesn't feel right either.

The one thing that really mostly concerns me is the diet. It's grain based, but most grain based diets aren't at all fortified. Would you say it's a mixture of corn, wheat, and milo? Perhaps it was scratch?

At their ages, they should be on a grower feed but the older hens need calcium now - oyster shell is the most common and easy to get in smaller packages now at TSC and other feed selling stores. The younger girls won't eat it, so it's safe. They all need grit if they're getting anything other than mashed pellets. So you'd want to pick up granite grit as well. So until the elders lay, they can and should all be getting at least 95% of their diet from a pellet or crumble (dry mash). The other 10% can be more mash, or healthy treats. If you feed any other treats other than raw vegetables, makes sure every piece is eaten within 15 minutes and not left in the yard. Meat products particularly can cause problems if they go bad. So can vegetable products if they're cooked. So take caution. That can cause death within hours in certain cases, though I'm not thinking that's the case here.

I just don't want to see you lose any in the future because of this.

So mystery aside, I would highly recommend a change in diet for them. I would also pick every girl up and feel her weight very carefully. You should be able to feel the breast bone, but not too sharply. It should have some meat on either side. For example, if you looked at your hen from the front - just at her chest - and compared them to the letters Y, V, and U with the bottom of the letter being where their breast bone is, Y would be too thin (see how the bottom sticks out), V would be about right (no sharp breast bone), and U would be too fat (no breast bone sticking out at all).

Also check them carefully for mites and particularly lice. Look even for the clusters of tiny white eggs around feather bases. THis sounds strange to ask, but a combination of insufficient diet, heat, and mites/lice can kill a bird in a day. You'd never see them if you don't check every inch of the bird particularly under the wings, on the skin there, at their vents, and at the back of their necks. It's best to just rule this out at least.

In the mean time, I'd honestly consider installing a camera pointing at the coop. IF someone did this (and I wouldn't put it past someone) then it's cruel, malicious, and really pretty sick.

I'd like your opinion of my post and your answers about the feed. I suspect a well-meaning feed store clerk gave you some bad but pretty common advice on using scratch for chickens as a full diet.

 

[bekkers]

I had secured the roof/shade tarp to the fram with yarn, and one of the loops had frayed w/all the strong wind we had so he re-attatched it wth a plastic zip-tie. Just to prevent it from flapping around a lot and make a bigger shade area and prevent the chickens from hopping up to roost on the frame.


Good point about the brahma, but I haven't seen heat stroke in chickens so I thought that either she staggered out of the shade area and keeled over, or, the shade moved, like she may have been near the edge when she fell over there, and by the time we got home the sun had shifted. There really is a terrible lack of shade here, but it is kind of a mountainous desert and I guess I naively thought/hoped a tarp over their ark would be enough. There is one spot with better shade and we leave them there a lot, but it isn't shady until mid afternoon, and I hate to leave them in one spot so much. Plus, I have been thinking the dust/gravel is probably hotter/reflects heat worse than grass.

ugh, I hadn't thought of bb's. I will look over the area where they were, but we didn't notice any at the time, however it could have happened, that would explain the specificity of why some birds seem ok and others not, I don't think we would know for sure unless we thoroughly checked out the bodies of the three dead ones, which I honestly don't think I could bring myself to do at this point.

 

[Eggs4Sale]

Don't know if you saw threehorses reply as it appeared just before yours...

 

[bekkers]

threehorses,

the feed I bought was something called fortified game bird something, I wish I had the bag still. It said specifically that it was a complete diet, but I also had some oyster shell, but I was waiting to give it to them b/c I thought they were still too young for calcium. They get lots of grit b/c the dust/gravel that they spend a lot of time on is very close to the stuff that I bought in the beginning, so I didn't keep buying it to scatter for them. I think the bag said 12 or 14% protein, but we gave them extra in the from of tuna or other meat. The clerk seemed knowledgeable, I described the ages and situation and she said she had chickens in an ark on her property, and not to worry (she was trying to help me figure out what to do the day of the dog situation, I had left the birds in a dog crate while I ran to the farm coop looking for a bigger crate or SOEMTHING, to put them in...) just pick up some lumber and put an ark together (which I did) and feed them this. I also read a bit online about feed and didn;t want to mix my own grains and vitamins minerals so I was happy this feed was "complete" and I could just give the birds healthy treats. (and extra protein, b/c I was concerned that the percentage on the bag was a little lower than I thought was best from my reading)

It's true they don't all get the same of every treat, but I tend to bring out plenty and it is a fun time to toss them each treats and my 3 year old likes to watch them eat so we would always see that each of them got at least SOME of the treat. Especially the buff brahma as she was the smallest and most timid, we would kind of toss some to her away from the others so she would have a chance, but even so they really were very good about sharing and not shooing off the others when they ate together.

I have not been taking them out and checking them over as I should have been (and did at the very beginning) b/c I am worried about them getting out in the front yard and going in the road. We were really happy with the idea of having them completely free range in the back when I could hang out with them better and check them out, hand feed them (well we were working on that, they really are not all that friendly) but the dogs did not seem to understand that the birds were family now too. I thought I had lost one of the reds the second day we had them b/c she was chased around and barked at and was so frightened, but luckily after a minute she hopped up and ran over to her sisters and seemed right as rain immediately. I will try to find a way to do this more often. It is tough to cram into the 4 foot high ark without sitting in bird poo... (which I would even deal with, but when the 3 year old and 1 year old desperately want to come in and hold their chickens too I draw the line. Is it ok for the kids to go in there? I worry about how to get them cleaned up properly, I mean they put everything in their mouths, ick.

I am beginning to think we are not the best home for chickens. :-( Perhaps this grand plan is just not working out so well in real life. I don't want to subject the poor birds to bad conditions or feeding b/c I am too busy or unable to care for them properly. (or keep them cool enough, away from nasty people, etc...)

 

[Eggs4Sale]

When I said if you give 10 treats , you don't know how many ate them, I was referring to if someone had put poisoned treats in there, and that might be why only some of the chickens had a reaction to it. If a guy tossed in 10 poisoned cookies, you might have three chickens gobble them all up before the others even get a chance.

My chickens sure don't get fair shares!

There was a list of poisonous plants posted the other day, and it was a long list. Who knows what someone would use to kill a chicken.

If you had the ark in the backyard, would the dogs get to the chickens there?

 

[bekkers]

aha, yes. good point about the cookies, BUT, the 3 that are left are the dominant ones and I would expect them to be the first gobblers in general. They usually get the first bites of tuna and the grain in the dish when I refill it. But, who knows, we haven't been doing a lot of treats the last few days so maybe the group eating dynamic was altered. My husband has been feeding them in the evenings this week.

I do feel that the ark is too flimsy to withstand out two 80 pound, very badly behaved (generally unruly and obnoxious, scratching hard at doors to get in and out, etc...) labradors. I think I could build something sturdier, but it would cost quite a bit more than what I put together on the spur of the moment. I think it would have to be chain link, and also I worry that even if the dogs learn to stop trying to play with or eat the chickens, or whatever they were planning to do with them when they caught them, they will still stress the chickens out more than is healthy. This was my first thought though as we were trying to figure out what to do. I for some reason assumed they were poisoned rather than heat stroked as soon as I found them and wanted to get the remaining chickens safely behind our fence, but it just wouldn't be safe for at least a few days while I figure out a better enclosure. There is a distinct possibility that when discussing the cost of a new enclose for the backyard my dh would nix the whole plan b/c I sold him on this idea in the first place b/c it would be "in"-expensive, educational and provide us with fresh healthy (and possibly organic if I can figure out a way to feed them that way) eggs.

I think a bb gun is more likely than poison at the moment, it fits the situation much more neatly. I feel that I should put the last three girls in a dog crate in the back temporarily until we decide weather I can put together a chain link fence or something, or if we need to re-home them.

 

[babyspice35]

So sorry this had to happen

Hopefully it wasn't BB and I suppose you will never know. It's heartbreaking to loose pets and I wish you luck with the rest of them.

 

[posey]

Hi I just now found the time to read through all of the posts. So glad three horses jumped in.

Don't give up yet, please. I think you can work this out. I say that because I have been adapting things, re-working or re-building things with our chickens for the last month and a half. I have also been fighting sickness and death. I know first hand how overwhelming this can get.

You are doing a great job, please don't think that you have failed.

About the shade, I know you said you live in the high desert and have a lack of shade. This idea just came to me...would there be a way for ya'll to put up a tarp, maybe in the back yard or one of those canopy shade tents. I don't mean a screen cabana (unless you have one), just the canopy or a tarp to make a shaded area that you could put the ark under. That would give them lots more shade and they would probably be safer in the back.

That whole malicious letter is so exasperating. I can't even imagine a person living in your development who would be so cruel.

The BB shot idea was brilliant! I never would have thought of that but it is such a possibility.

About the laboratory, did you find out where the closest one is to you? If you are taking a dead bird you need to get it there as quickly as possible after death. Good idea to bag it and put it on ice too. But I so understand about driving all that way with your young children, and then driving back. Right now I think you shouldn't worry about that unless the worst happens and another one dies, which, we are hoping will not happen.

Try and relax, check your birds for lice or mites as suggested, try to adjust the diet, give them shade and cool water and see how it goes.

I also wanted to let you know that we have friends here how have 13 chickens. Last summer only one of their chickens started to act differently. It had been hot and they didn't know what to do.
They took the chicken and another chicken friend into the house and put them in a large dog wire crate in an air conditioned room. Of course they gave them food and water. After two days that chicken started to act normal again. Just a wild idea for those torid hot days if you think they are getting stressed by the heat.

Please keep us posted
Wishing you well
Posey