3 Yr Old Hen Walking on Hocks, Thin

[Kathy Golla]

Wow! Super informative...thanks so much for the replies @Mixed flock enthusiast

 

[Eggcessive]

I would just like to add that I would try to get some vitamin B complex, and give 1/4 to 1/2 tablet daily crushed over food. The NutriDrench you are giving is fine, but giving the electrolytes and other ingredients for more than a few days, might cause some diarrhea. She really needs the B2 (riboflavin) mostly to see if it is a deficiency. Usually, it improves within a few days to a week if it is a deficiency. Affected chickens walk on their hocks and have curled under toes.

As far as her eye is concerned, some chickens are born with a coloboma or keyhole pupil. It affects many other birds, animals, and even people. Mareks can cause an irregular cornea which can cause the pupil to look irregular or even pinpoint. The color then turns grey. Apparently the color change may happen gradually, and it can affect both eyes.

I don’t know as much as others do about Mareks, but it can happen anywhere. Hopefully, this is not the case with your hen. Have you added any birds recently?

 

[Kathy Golla]

Good tip....!
OP added chicks from Meyers and they were vaccinated and waited the appropriate time for vaccination to kick in before integrating with other vaccinated birds.
What about Mycoplasma Synovaie—does it fit the symptoms?

 

[Eggcessive]

MS doesn’t cause walking on hocks as a primary symptom. It can cause swollen hock and ankle joints.

 

[Stephine]

I would just like to add that I would try to get some vitamin B complex, and give 1/4 to 1/2 tablet daily crushed over food. The NutriDrench you are giving is fine, but giving the electrolytes and other ingredients for more than a few days, might cause some diarrhea. She really needs the B2 (riboflavin) mostly to see if it is a deficiency. Usually, it improves within a few days to a week if it is a deficiency. Affected chickens walk on their hocks and have curled under toes.

As far as her eye is concerned, some chickens are born with a coloboma or keyhole pupil. It affects many other birds, animals, and even people. Mareks can cause an irregular cornea which can cause the pupil to look irregular or even pinpoint. The color then turns grey. Apparently the color change may happen gradually, and it can affect both eyes.

I don’t know as much as others do about Mareks, but it can happen anywhere. Hopefully, this is not the case with your hen. Have you added any birds recently?

Dang it - I thought Nutri drench had riboflavin! Argh. Ok, my mistake - I will definitely get some B2 in her asap. Thanks! And good to know that the odd pupil could have been like that from birth. I still don’t see any grey in her eyes, so that’s good. No new birds besides the chicks (these were from MPC, by the way), and they were vaccinated.

 

[Stephine]

Sorry, hadn’t seen this post until just now, trying to catch up. Have you had any other chickens diagnosed with Marek’s disease? Your signs are weight loss, waking on hocks, irregular pupil shape in one eye? First diagnosis of Marek’s in your flock can be difficult, as Marrk’s Can mimic other diseases. So far it sounds like it could be Marek’s but not necessarily. You can get the disease in vaccinated birds. At three years old, she could have tumors from Marek’s or just cancer in general, which could cause weakness (walking on hocks) and weight loss. If the eye is incidental, if it had happened earlier or was a congenital problem, then you are left with multiple possibilities... If the eye is new-ish (last few months), that makes Marek’s much more likely, IMO.

I’m a herpesvirus researcher in my day job so reviewed some of the scientific literature about Marek’s when our flock came down with it. The real data about it is all on commercial flocks, which aren’t kept around for three years, so you have to read between the lines to apply to backyard flocks. From the scientific literature, vaccination greatly reduces tumors and death over the time period that commercial flock owners care about, which is more like weeks to a year, depending on broiler vs layer flocks. However, some of these birds still develop disease over time, especially with the easiest to use “cell-free” vaccine, which is why I’m using the Rispens vaccine in my flock. There is very little real data about what happens long term, but as animals age, they can become susceptible to a herpesvirus recrudescencing, think geriatric people who get shingles from their old chickenpox infection that they had as a child. So, an older bird can definitely be susceptible to recrudescence of the Marek’s virus and may not fight the virus well enough to prevent tumors and neurological disease. The vaccine helps the bird’s immune system fight the virus and hold it to a low level, but as our immune system ages it works more poorly.

I’m sorry about your hen! Depending on the virus strain and the bird, some people have supported the bird and the virus goes back into a quiescent or latent state. That’s not true for our strain, I’ve tried to save multiple birds and they’ve all died, so my DD and I have agreed that we will cull to end suffering of our future affected birds. However, that’s not everyone’s experience... I think that if tumors form, there’s no going back and they die of cancer, which is what our birds do. Weight loss and muscle wasting occur fast in cancer, it’s not just that they can’t eat as cancer itself causes cachexia...

Thank you so much Mixed Flock, that is a lot of information. I really don’t know if she always had a deformed pupil, it would be easy to miss unless you are staring at her.
Yes, if this is Mareks it would probably be the first case, though I had a hen die from emaciation a bit over a year ago, but never had her necropsied. All the chickens were evacuated to a different farm for a few months after we lost our home in the October ’17 wildfires, when I got them back, that one never made it out of molt and slowly deteriorated, but she could walk till the end. Everyone inhaled a lot of smoke in those fires - of the two hens I kept with us (in the different houses we were staying in and in the car!) because they were bleeding when we rescued them, one sounded like Darth Vader - I was sure I was going to lose her, but she made it through and seems totally healthy now. Anyway, I thought that emaciated hen had suffered in the fire, so I didn‘t send her in to be examined...
I will try b2. I thought she was getting it in the nutri drench, but I was mistaken. I am holding out some faint hope for that... Her toes aren’t curled though, so we’ll see. She started having more trouble eating today. She’ll attack the treats with gusto, but not always manage to get it in her beak and swallow it...
I just hope nobody else gets sick!

Thanks again!

 

[Kathy Golla]

MS doesn’t cause walking on hocks as a primary symptom. It can cause swollen hock and ankle joints.

Good good, thank you!

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Thank you so much Mixed Flock, that is a lot of information. I really don’t know if she always had a deformed pupil, it would be easy to miss unless you are staring at her.
Yes, if this is Mareks it would probably be the first case, though I had a hen die from emaciation a bit over a year ago, but never had her necropsied. All the chickens were evacuated to a different farm for a few months after we lost our home in the October ’17 wildfires, when I got them back, that one never made it out of molt and slowly deteriorated, but she could walk till the end. Everyone inhaled a lot of smoke in those fires - of the two hens I kept with us (in the different houses we were staying in and in the car!) because they were bleeding when we rescued them, one sounded like Darth Vader - I was sure I was going to lose her, but she made it through and seems totally healthy now. Anyway, I thought that emaciated hen had suffered in the fire, so I didn‘t send her in to be examined...
I will try b2. I thought she was getting it in the nutri drench, but I was mistaken. I am holding out some faint hope for that... Her toes aren’t curled though, so we’ll see. She started having more trouble eating today. She’ll attack the treats with gusto, but not always manage to get it in her beak and swallow it...
I just hope nobody else gets sick!

Thanks again!

I’m certainly hoping that it’s an isolated problem without more ramifications for your flock. I also hope she rallies. It sounds like you and your flock have already been through so much!!!

My Marek’s birds either didn’t want to eat, or acted hungry but couldn’t eat much, probably because their tongue/jaw/throat muscles weren’t working right due to nerve damage. Tube feeding didn’t help overall. If you do lose your bird, a necropsy by a state lab would help establish whether you have Marek’s or another problem.

 

[Stephine]

I’m certainly hoping that it’s an isolated problem without more ramifications for your flock. I also hope she rallies. It sounds like you and your flock have already been through so much!!!

My Marek’s birds either didn’t want to eat, or acted hungry but couldn’t eat much, probably because their tongue/jaw/throat muscles weren’t working right due to nerve damage. Tube feeding didn’t help overall. If you do lose your bird, a necropsy by a state lab would help establish whether you have Marek’s or another problem.

Thanks again and thank you for the virtual hug!
I don’t have much hope for Penny - like you said, she looks like she wants to eat but can’t make it happen anymore. I haven’t seen her drink since I brought her to the house - I have to put drops on her beak to get her to drink anything. I gave her some vitamin b complex, but my strong hunch is that that is not it. She lost weight before she became lame - I don’t think that would happen from a vitamin b deficiency. Tumors seem much more likely.
She has now started twitching her head... but her eyes still look the same, I keep checking for the grey.
I will definitely send her in to be necropsied - I think here in CA it’s to UC Davis? If anyone has details... Thanks!!

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Thanks again and thank you for the virtual hug!
I don’t have much hope for Penny - like you said, she looks like she wants to eat but can’t make it happen anymore. I haven’t seen her drink since I brought her to the house - I have to put drops on her beak to get her to drink anything. I gave her some vitamin b complex, but my strong hunch is that that is not it. She lost weight before she became lame - I don’t think that would happen from a vitamin b deficiency. Tumors seem much more likely.
She has now started twitching her head... but her eyes still look the same, I keep checking for the grey.
I will definitely send her in to be necropsied - I think here in CA it’s to UC Davis? If anyone has details... Thanks!!

Yes it’s UC Davis. Another poster recently submitted a hen with Marek’s to UC Davis and posted details... let me see if I can find that thread...