a bit of a dog problem

[WalkingOnSunshine]

Well his animals are beefers, not dairy and so the numbers are not as extreme 200$ calf, $2000+ grown,butchered and sold as quarters less costs and his chickens are hatchery layers not expensive breeding stock etc but yes I can see your point. No dog is worth 400k and money can't fix everything. In that situation i suppose I'd be lucky to only lose my dog. Not my house and everything else too.

I don't agree with you that it's fair to expect me to try harder and not his to change his ways of doing things or clean up. No one but us being right next to him would ever know what a disgusting pig he is so he has gotten away with it for 20 yrs. We will never be real farmers on this small chunk of land but we are also not ridiculous city people complaining about farm smells, tractor noise or a rooster crowing at 4am. I'm glad our dogs were good, he didn't shoot, and you're not my neighbour! (Lol) Maybe I don't know anything, I guess I just hope farmers pause before pulling that trigger and only do so as a LAST resort, rights and all.

If my dog comes to his property due to blood and guts spread out everywhere and kills a ranging chicken and ends up shot for it, I won't be the tolerant good neighbour and you can bet he will have his hands full with health inspectors, bylaw enforcement, police, fines and any other wrath we could rain down on him. But that's another thread and going slightly OT.

I understand what you're saying, but here's something else that you probably haven't thought of: stress.

When your dogs chase his livestock, whether or not they catch and/or kill, it, that causes stress. It causes chickens to stop laying, sometimes for weeks. It causes calves to expend energy that they would normally use to make muscle mass, and stress causes poor growth. So you seem to think that your dogs chasing the animals does no real harm, but that's not true.

Here's a concrete example for you: when I was a kid, a neighbor's dogs got in with our dry cows and chased them all over the field. Not a single cow was nipped--but over 50% of them aborted their calves in the next month from stress. That was a terrible financial loss for us.

He did what he's done for years and years until you moved in. He was there first. I assume you looked at your property before you moved? You made a choice to live next to him. He did NOT get the choice to have you as a neighbor. He does not have to change his ways for you.

I also disagree about your thinking something would happen with health inspectors, etc. I don't know where you live, but here, that man is breaking no laws. Agricultural land has different rules. I would look up the laws to see if he's breaking any of them before you assume you could cause him lots of trouble if he shot your dogs. Here, YOU would owe HIM the money for the animals your dogs killed. He would owe you nothing, and no amount of carcasses on his property would matter to the authorities in the slightest. It's his land. Barring zoning laws, he can do what he likes on it. This is very different than in the city, yes. But you chose this.

You want to excuse yourself of your responsibilities because this man is not a good farm manager, and his birds are hatchery birds and his animals are beef cows and not worth that much money so it's less of a big deal...you're messing with his livelihood. And what he does on his property DOES NOT MATTER to what your responsibilities are. Your responsibility is to keep your dog on your property no matter what your neighbor does on his. That's it. There are no excuses here. Put up a fence. We just put in an in-ground radio fence and it cost us less than $400 even after buying the best one out there, extra wire to fence 4 acres, and renting the trenching machine to put it in. You have no excuses.

 

[brandon170]

Quirky sue if your dogs get shot while they chased any livestock it would be your fault and no one elses for not having control over your dogs IMO .

 

[Mtn Laurel]

<snip>

If my dog comes to his property due to blood and guts spread out everywhere and kills a ranging chicken and ends up shot for it, I won't be the tolerant good neighbour and you can bet he will have his hands full with health inspectors, bylaw enforcement, police, fines and any other wrath we could rain down on him. But that's another thread and going slightly OT.

If a dog goes onto his property - no matter the reason or attraction - it's no ones fault except the dog owner for not securing the dog on their own property. If a pet owner wants to keep their pet safe, they make sure it stays on their own property.

Sounds like this guy has been around for a while and has probably dealt with his share of predators. I would imagine the dog owner will never know what became of their pet as many subscribe to the practice of "SSS" - Shoot, Shovel, and Shut-up.

A fence is a much better alternative.

 

[sourland]

I have found that paint ball guns work great - If you hit the dog in the side it makes the impression that if he goes near your flock Agian,,,, it will get hit with a paint ball gun.
Before I had chickens my iresponceable neighbors let there dogs roam an they would fight my dog- I got a paint ball gun an told my dog to back off an when those two dogs where confused why my dog fell back I shot them with the paint ball gun like twice each an them dogs come NOWHERE near my dog or even my property

In many areas although you can rightfully kill dogs harassing livestock, shooting with paintball guns will be deemed cruelty, and you can be prosecuted. Illogical, I agree, but it can happen.

 

[centrarchid]

In many areas although you can rightfully kill dogs harassing livestock, shooting with paintball guns will be deemed cruelty, and you can be prosecuted. Illogical, I agree, but it can happen.

We are doing the BB gun thing here and no one seems against it. Still not legal but is an effective alternative so long as offending dog does not figure out person has to be present with BB gun. BB guns used here cause minimal actual damage I assume because of where dog is targeted and they are not the pump models.

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

In many areas although you can rightfully kill dogs harassing livestock, shooting with paintball guns will be deemed cruelty, and you can be prosecuted. Illogical, I agree, but it can happen.

This is absolutely true. Covering the dog with paint is cruelty, shooting it is not in our area.

 

[Shellz]

Not so much the covering of paint that's cruel, (totally non-toxic & bio-degradeable) but the hefty sting it leaves behind. I initially thought it was a good idea to use a paintball gun, (sold them all years ago. Never used in the country) but forgotten about the legal ramifications of taking such action. Yes, I believe in certain jurisdictions, it is considered animal cruelty. Even worse, the effect it would have on a smallish dog. Definitely cruel, morally speaking as well.

To defend one's own property & livestock, a well placed shot to end a predator's attack in an instant, is really the most humane thing to do. It is necessary sometimes. We don't have to like doing it, but its a pred vs livestock/livelihood kind of deal. It is the harsh reality of country living sometimes. I learned & I adapted. If I felt I couldn't take care of business, I would have moved back to the city. I used to hate guns, but now that we are in the country, we are educated in their safety & use. We realize the importance of having them. We are responsible folks & have only had to shoot a predator once in 4 years. A 40 lb male coyote was stalking my Muscovy ducks.

In any case, my dogs are doing their jobs well & we are fortunate that we've never had to be put in a position to have to shoot anyone's dog. If I didn't have my dogs, I'm sure there would have been a few opportunities to do so. I would NOT enjoy the task, but its the dog(s) or my poultry. The local authorities have given me their blessing if such a situation should occur. I thank god every day for my dogs!

Getting off my soapbox now.

 

[Kodiakbear]

I feel like I just have to comment on what QuirkySue said. My dogs are my babies too. I would never, ever want anything to happen to them. Which is why they do not wander. I keep an eye on them at all times, simply because I treasure them. If you let your dogs wander away, you have no power over what happens to them. They could get hit by a car, attacked by a rabid animal, shot by someone, or even stolen. Responsible dog owners do not let their dogs run free. If you cannot train your dog to stay on your property, then they should not be loose. Some dogs have no issue being trained to stay. We've had great dogs that would never leave our side and we never had a worry. Our current dog is not that way. I would never allow him to be outside unattended.

And people also must understand that one type of animal is not better than another. Just because you love your dog does not make it more valuable than someone else's animal (who they probably love too). One of our neighbors dogs does wander. I don't like it. Personally, I would not shoot him, but I would report him to animal control. I've heard of people's entire flocks being lost to a dog. You cannot compensate for that in my opinion.

I wanted to reply to quirkysue's post also but couldn't find the right words without perhaps coming across wrong. You said what I was thinking so I'll just say ditto. I love dogs but to dismiss chickens' or other livestock deaths as something that simply needs reimbursement if it happens is wrong. I would truly hate to see any dog shot for straying and harming other animals but the blame would rest squarely on that dog's owner for not properly controlling their animal.

 

[Shellz]

I'm on a roll now....
There is a price to be paid for being irresponsible. It's called consequences. Some dogs are more easily distracted than others if there is no fence or tether to restrain them. I say if you're comfortable with your dog being on its property & think he/she will never stray, great! More power to ya! But don't be whining & crying when that dog takes off for WHATEVER reason. YOU have to accept the consequences should that happen. No one else is to blame.

Ok, stick a fork in me, I'm done! Lol!

 

[iheartnh]

Just to clarify, my dogs never hurt any of his animals. His own dogs have all been roamers but he doesn't value them as anything other than doorbells as he calls them. So he wouldn't care much if his dog got shot and likewise wouldn't have thought twice about killing ours. He is also a dirty farmer, leaving beef offal out in the yard overnight which attracts predators of all kinds and is irresistible even to my trained dogs. That's not playing fair. I shouldn't have to pen or fence my porch pet when stuff like that is going on. I hope those of you who would shoot on a second chance after a warning have better farm practices.

I had a 35lb mutt and still have a 45lb Australian shepherd. The Aussie herding drive is strong but after dragging her back across the road a few times she leaves his cattle alone. Occasionally she will still bark at our own 2 steers and chase them away from the fence line.

So, you know your neighbor wouldn't think twice about killing your dogs, you know he does things that attract your dogs to his yard, and you still refuse to protect your dogs by restricting them to your property - you think it's his responsibility to change his farm practices, so you don't have to change your dog ownership practices?

I'm sorry, but if he shoots your dogs, it's your own fault.