A CALL OUT for responsible pet ownership! Unwanted roos, ducks, etc.

[spiritdance]

I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that one can only free range effectively with poultry netting, by babysitting the birds, or with a lgd. I have pastures on all sides of my chicken yard and house yard, all of which are enclosed with electric fencing and patrolled by donkeys. My chickens free range in batches, the main flock at one time and the "bug patrol" later. I have enough room that they never venture even as far as the pasture perimeter fences, they have plenty of brush, as well as several half barrels I have placed in the pastures, to duck under in the event of hawks, and my donks simply will not tolerate any strange animals in the pastures. I suffer very few losses to predation, and the trade-off is that not only do my chickens "work" for their keep by keeping the manure spread and bug-free in the pastures, de-bugging the yard, eating weed seeds before they can root, etc., they are much more content than many birds I've seen that are cooped up 24/7. I have made the considered decision to accept some degree of risk in exchange for knowing my chickens are living as full a life as I can give them. Calling that "irresponsible" seems to me quite judgmental. I do not go around criticizing those who choose to pen their chickens, since I know some people either find the risks unacceptable or do not have the space that I have. Every pet owner should give honest consideration to such a decision and operate to the extent of his/her means to provide for those pets, but that doesn't mean every pet owner has to reach the same decisions.

 

[harveyhorses]

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Just MHO, but you HAVE made provisions for them, for me, it is the people who buy some chickens, have a couple of acres and just let them fend for themselves, and then are totaly dismayed when somthing comes to the open buffet. It sounds like yours do not free range 24/7, since you say they free range in batches, and you have made shelters and protection. (I REALLY would not mess with a mad donkey if I was a preditor). I have read posts on here that just make me shake my head, but you are correct, everyone needs to make the correct choice for their own situation.
It just seems like lately I read more and more people 'maxing out' and need to rehome.
I envy you, I am in a neighborhood, so the girls only go out when I am there, but they have a big run, as much shade, or shelter as I can provide. Hmm, I seem to be rambling...

 

[BigDaddy'sGurl]

While I do agree with the majority of this post, I must admit that I find it disheartening to see people slamming the "I have to incubate", etc. crowd. I LOVE to incubate. I have 3 incubators and typically only hatch purebred chicks. I sell them usually as day to week olds with pretty good success. Whenever I have extra roosters, I have eaten them, but I have also given them away to good homes, and to homes wherein I knew they would be eaten. I do not keep more chickens than my space allows comfortably, and when I do sell extra roosters or hens, I try to sell them as "pairs" and I have even gone so far as to type up care sheets for people who are new to chickens with information from brooding to butchering and everything in between. I think a lot of this message in this thread is being turned to be anti-breeding, and I don't think that's fair. It takes the people who hatch for profit but keep their chickens in very good circumstances (like me) and makes us look like the irresponsible breeders who are purely in it for the money and are inhumane in their treatment of their chickens.

 

[BigDaddy'sGurl]

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I agree completely.

 

[yinepu]

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I agree...
We used to free range all of our birds.. and would only lose an occasional bird here or there.. (usually to a stray dog).. never had any major losses until this year. Part of the problem came from our neighbor who had been feeding raccoons.. to the point that they would come into his house.. play with his TV.. help themselves to all the food he would leave out for them.. then wander back to the old dead tree he had in his yard.
Well.. it seems he decided this year to stop feeding them and cut down their tree.. so we "inherited" his large family of very hungry raccoons.. we also have more predators this year than ever before for some reason.. not just the occasional stray dog.. but also families of foxes and a few coyotes.
So apparently .. even though I have been keeping chickens for all of my 51 years on this earth.. successfully at that.. I am now lumped in with the "irresponsible" chicken owners who have (how dare they) lost birds to predators... ya know what?..... it happens.. sooner or later everyone loses a bird or two.. sometimes you lose a lot.. it's part of life.. just so happens that many of us manage to free range successfully for years.. I have seen people on here with nice coops and STILL have predator issues.. so yeah.... my mother lost birds to predators and she had a coop.. my grandmother and her mother lost birds to predators.. they also had coops... it's a risk of owning birds..
I do have a coop for some of my birds.. and am building a bigger one for the new additions (thanks to my neighbor and his raccoons).. but I also still have some birds that free range.. the free rangers know where the "protected" area is to roost at night.. however I have seen foxes trying to get into my coop during the day (and ignoring the free rangers).. lets face facts.. this year predators are getting bolder and there seems to be a lot more of them than in years past..
Once you have had chickens for 51 years and never lost a single bird to predators.. come talk to me and tell me how you managed to do it..

 

[speckledhen]

Rehoming responsibly is one thing but as the previous poster mentioned, these homes are few and far between. And are they GOOD homes?

I can certainly feel for this, as I care and love for my chickens as well. I think the problem arises when they are rehomed and their future is then uncertain. If someone cares enough to lovingly raise these birds, then rehomes them to an uncertain fate...how deeply did that love go?

I hesitated to post here because I don't agree 100% with some points on this thread. Most here know me. You know I studied and learned before ever getting chickens. The coop and pen was built, decisions about disease prevention and culling were made, before the first chick was in the brooder, so I agree that it's a great thing to educate yourself and decide what you'll do with extra birds, in the event of contagious disease, etc. And I don't hatch without a purpose to it or without a place to put the resulting birds/chicks or a plan to sell them or give them to a specific person.

Though other parts of this thread ring true, I have issue with the "better dead than rehomed" part. At least that is the vibe I get from some people. If that was the case, then no one should ever sell a chick or an adult bird, not ever. You can't say you know how that bird will be treated when it leaves your place. So I have no problem rehoming/selling a rooster, or any other bird. I have rehomed every extra rooster I've ever had except one aggressive one that we processed. To read some of this, seems some would have me take the cute and friendly 11 week old Delawegger cockerel my broody hen raised and shoot him in the head rather than rehome him as I'm trying to do now, just because I can't do a background check on his future owner, and I won't do that. I cannot require a dossier on the future owners, no, but I also can't keep him here as there is no place for one extra mixed breed boy.

I don't eat my hens, but I don't care if others eat theirs. If I want meat birds, I'll have separate meat birds and think of them as such from the get-go, but that's just the way I'd have to do it. Only once, early on, did I get stuck with about ten BR cockerels and when they were getting upwards of 12 weeks old, I offered them up on the feedstore bulletin board at $2 each and sold them immediately, with no illusions as to what their fate would be. Could have kept them aside, separate, and fattened them up, but wasn't ready for that just yet, so let someone else reap the benefit of them.

And I will free range as long as I have chickens. Had done it for almost six years. Haven't lost one to a predator and I live in the mountains, in the woods, with every predator imaginable. I credit my alert roosters, the tree cover, and the perimeter livestock fencing that surrounds about 1/3 of my acreage, in addition to the actual chicken pens they are in when we are not home. I will eventually have to deal with a predator loss, but I won't stop free ranging. It's the risk one takes for a healthier lifestyle for the flock, IMO.

I also want to point out that it's not that some don't have a plan, but as you know all too well, best-laid plans can go awry. At one time, it may be easy to sell/rehome extra roosters, then a year later, you can't pay folks to take them. Things change.​

 

[Redcatcher]

I see nothing wrong with humanely disposing of roosters or unwanted chickens in general. The entire ecological system is based on the life and death cycles of countless billions of organisms...From plankton to elephants to whales. It's been that way since the beginning of time and will continue to the end of time. Nature can be wasteful and brutal. The reason why cats and dogs, mice, rats and most bird species have multiple litters/clutches is because, in nature, the majority will fall victim to prey animals or die of diseases and starvation (which in the majority of cases is anything but humane). In domestication, we rarely see that so there is a huge surplus of these animals. I don't understand why mankind is condemned for doing something that nature can't take care of herself. The key to this is humane. IF you raise a surplus of animals, either give them the very best care that you can give them, or humanely dispose of them.

 

[tadandrita]

Job well done, kudos, I definitely agree with Beekissed 1000% all the way!!!

 

[Beekissed]

Wow! I am shocked and amazed at the support this subject has raised!

I was definitely prepared to get crucified for this topic.

I've given it a lot of thought over the past few years I've been a member and realized that there were fewer and fewer threads that I could read without extreme frustration. All these posts of pleas for help with rehoming unwanted birds, should I cull my sick and dying bird~but I can't face it, the neighbor's dog ate my flock, my chickens are eating one another....well, it was downright disheartening to know that people read on this forum but do not seem to learn. Raising chickens is very close to my heritage and my heart and I love to share information and stories about chickens...I think they are among the most charming farm animals and provide so much education and fun for young children. Not to mention they are useful, beautiful and easy to keep. All of these reasons are why I feel such concern over the topic of discussion. Any old country person would....we were raised very closely with animal husbandry and love to see it done right. Not right in our eyes...right in a moral sense, in an ethical sense, in a sustainable sense. We don't like to see or hear about suffering any more than do more urban folks, particularly when it is so easy to avoid if one exercises good sense and aforethought.

spiritdance, of course I didn't mean that there are no other ways to free range effectively and your donkeys and electric fencing seem to be good flock protectors. Some folks use llama, some turkeys or geese. What I meant was that some type of protection other than a roo is needed when free ranging....tree cover, creating hides for an easy get away, good fencing options....you name it, it has to be better than a kiss for luck and hope you survive. Losses are accepted...I only free range, myself. I feel chickens are actually more vulnerable in a penned situation and you see just as many threads about them being snatched out of pens and coops as you do with free ranged flocks.

You have to admit that an electric fencing and donkeys aren't exactly a whimpy defense against predators!

BigDaddy'sGurl~Someone who has a good market for incubated chicks and are selling them are also obviously not the ones meant by this thread. I don't find it a bit irresponsible to make money providing chicks for sale....hatcheries do it and we buy from them. Same thing. The "slamming" to which you refer~and slamming is a pretty harsh word for simple TRUTH~ is for those who incubate without a thought of where those extra chicks will be placed and just hoping they will find someone or somewhere to rehome the ones they aren't planning on keeping. It is no different than breeding dogs and cats and hoping you can place those extra animals...then taking them to the pound when you cannot. Uncertain futures for animals that you had a hand in creating....I don't call that responsible. I can't imagine anyone would.

speckledhen ~ I think the issue here is intent. If you raise birds with the express intent to sell, or give to someone particular, the extras, then that is no different than anyone raising livestock and selling offspring. I don't find a thing wrong with that....but...you will rarely find a farmer who breeds his livestock with no market in place and ready for his calf crop, lamb crop, etc.

If there were a general livestock market out there that were avaible for chickens and one could generate money by breeding and consequently selling those birds as an established business....I'd say, breed to your heart's content. Those birds will obviously be utilized for meat on someone's table and not be placed in a cock fight, set out in a field to "fend for himself", placed in a cage for years, or become a pet that attacks its owner and needs to be rehomed...once again. They could...anyone can buy an animal at a livestock auction, but I feel it would be less likely. Most folks who go to livestock auctions are there to either sell or buy as a business.

But there is no market for extra roosters, are there? This thread is about having a plan. I don't really care if the plan is to rehome. But attempting to rehome over and over with no thought of "maybe I should just stop"? Selling is one thing. Rehoming free birds because you just cannot stop getting or hatching more chickens and writing desparate pleas on BYC for ideas on how to rehome yet another unwanted roo or duck is~ just in my opinion and that can be taken or left, as you desire~ irresponsible. It is no different than the folks who do not spay or neuter their animals and then have to find homes for the unwanted offspring....how can that be any different in anyone's eyes?

I've rehomed a few retired hens myself and found it to be a big mistake...and I knew these people. Very sweet and well intentioned but with no idea whatsoever as to how to keep a chicken....just asked me if I would give them some old hens for pets. They had no plan, just wanted them. The hens are now dead by predation and I could kick myself over and over for letting them die in a violent and unplanned way. I'm not saying all rehomed homes are like that, but I'm willing to bet that a good many are. I can tell simply by reading the thousands of posts on BYC from people who didn't plan, just wanted a pet and came back crying about dead, sick, unwanted birds. It happens enough on here to prompt me to start a thread such as this....

This thread is not about slamming, it is about information, a plea for responsible breeding, handling and managing the chickens, ducks, quail, turkeys in our care. As adults we know what the term responsible pet ownership means...actually, it gets driven down out throats by all the animal lovers out there on a daily basis. There seems to be a little hypocrisy, though...people want to call their chickens pets but do not seem to think they should be treated like their other pets. Let's keep those extra ~ "unwanted" but previously wanted or you would not have hatched, bought or accepted, birds~ out of the shelters, off the hoarder shows, out of slasher videos and pics of torn up, unprotected animals, shall we?

 

[ChickenAlgebra]

I breed as I like the roos guard duty, but with young kids, I want the civil, not easily startled behavior I have. I got way too many pullets this year, but easy to rehome, nice hens, make good pets. But extras are always food.