A huge hawk is terrorizing my chickens!!!

[sourland]

I have never known of anyone "feeding" hawks just as I have never known of anyone getting the permit to carry out hawk control. Trust me, if such a permit were readily available, I would have one. I fly Birmingham rollers and for 8 or 9 months of the year they are under constant attack from Coopers hawks. Did anyone do a search on "Operation High Roller'? This is real not conjecture. These guys were caught in a sting, arrested, fined and assigned jail terms. This is fact not fiction.

 

[haTHOR]

i did read about the operation and while you and i might be on opposite sides of what should or should not be able to be done by citizens to hawks, we definitely agree that the gov't is serious about the crime, and it is a CRIME, unlike shooting a dog on your property who threatens your birds. thank you for the links!

i read that an amendment has been proposed to make actions barred by the migratory bird act a felony (not a misdemeanor). i hope walkingwolf now understands that migratory birds DOES include raptors in question, despite his earlier mistaken statement. it is difficult indeed to see inaccurate statements made here that very well could lead others to believe that actions against hawks or other raptors is not a crime, not covered by the act, or that the laws are not enforced.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Quote:
No where did I state any such statement. I would kindly ask you to retract this lie and libelous statement. You know perfectly well that I did not say it was not against the law and I clearly pointed out that it was and IS still a misdemeanor. You should be ashamed of yourself for such tactics. You clearly are ignoring the moderator and trying to take this thread further out of control with LIES.

 

[Cetawin]

Quote:
It is a class B misdemeanor, I would equate serious to felony.

OP you should wear a hat if the hawk is brazen, they have attacked people and caused serious head injuries. If the hawk dives on you or a family member notify Fish and Wildlife and they will either dispatch the hawk or direct you to get a permit to do it yourself. Killing a hawk is not easy though, they roost and patrol at altitudes outside of shotgun range. And one must be a extremely good shot to hit one on a dive at over 200mph.

Last time I checked the Migratory Birds Treaty Act, it could be a felony, depending on the specific circumstances, requiring jail time as well as a $ multi-thousand fine. That's pretty severe to me. There is currently a new bill (passed the house) that significantly increases the penalties.

Sonoran you are correct...it IS a felony. and can carry 5 years in federal prison plus 5,000.00 for harrassing, harming, injuring or killing one. If caught with any part of one in your possession without the proper paperwork which applies to American Indians and falconers only, it is 5,000.00 per body part. So having three hawk feathers can cost you $15,000.00 without a batting an eye.

Birds included in the act are Eagles, Hawks, Kestrels, Osprey, Falcons and Owls just for starters.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Last time I checked the Migratory Birds Treaty Act, it could be a felony, depending on the specific circumstances, requiring jail time as well as a $ multi-thousand fine. That's pretty severe to me. There is currently a new bill (passed the house) that significantly increases the penalties.

Sonoran you are correct...it IS a felony. and can carry 5 years in federal prison plus 5,000.00 for harrassing, harming, injuring or killing one. If caught with any part of one in your possession without the proper paperwork which applies to American Indians and falconers only, it is 5,000.00 per body part. So having three hawk feathers can cost you $15,000.00 without a batting an eye.

Birds included in the act are Eagles, Hawks, Kestrels, Osprey, Falcons and Owls just for starters.

And having them in your possession at all is what constitutes that crime; doesn't matter how you acquired them.

 

[sourland]

haTHOR, I'm not sure that we are on opposite sides of what should or should not be done. Anyone who spends a lot of time outdoors knows that redtails, Coopers, sharp shins, and great horned owls are not endangered. Just count the red tails along any major interstate. However, messing with them is illegal, and I respect that fact. It is just a shame that I am unable to protect the animals that I am responsible for. My solution is to pen my birds 7 or 8 months of the year and fly only from late spring until early autumn. This year is good, and my birds have only been hit 3 or 4 times. This will end within the next month and a half or so. I truly have a love/hate regard for raptors. They are awesomely impressive.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Violations/Penalties. According to the Act, a person, association, partnership or corporation which violates the Act or its regulations is guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to a fine of up to $500, jail up to six months, or both. Anyone who knowingly takes a migratory bird and intends to, offers to, or actually sells or barters the bird is guilty of a felony, with fines up to $2,000, jail up to two years, or both. (Permissible fines are increased significantly by the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984, as amended in 1987, which is summarized separately in this Handbook.)

This is from the US Fish and Wildlife Law Enforcement Handbook. The Sentencing reform act a separate law allows for the increase of penalties up to 25%.


As you can CLEARLY see a person has to intend, offer, or barter for it to be a felony and it is NOT anywhere near what has been implied.

The OP showed no intention to kill a raptor only expressing problems. OP's neighbor may, but that is not the OP and the OP is not their keeper and is under no obligation to be their keeper. Fear mongering is such a petty forum habit, and it brings no credibility to the poster using it. Other than to annoy and troll for a argument there is not any use for it. The OP has expressed no intention of breaking the law, and myself and other members have only talked of legal means. Notifying the authorities and or applying for a permit are not against the law and it is useless to continue trying to imply that persons will be arrested.

But then I think for some the sole intent is to get a thread locked if other parties will not bend and submit. It appears to be more about forum bravado than actual threats to the hawks which there is none.

 

[crawfordmama]

Just shoot it!

 

[WalkingWolf]

Quote:
Sorry crawdfordmanma I believe shooting trolls is against the law, though in some towns I believe they still tar and feather them...

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
No where did I state any such statement. I would kindly ask you to retract this lie and libelous statement. You know perfectly well that I did not say it was not against the law and I clearly pointed out that it was and IS still a misdemeanor. You should be ashamed of yourself for such tactics. You clearly are ignoring the moderator and trying to take this thread further out of control with LIES.

Bigdaddyabc is the one who made the statement that it is not illegal, and WalkingWolf more or less agreed with him, although in an earlier statement he did say it was a mindemeanor, and implied that it might result in a handslapping. He also implied that shooting a migratory bird going after one's animals is justified and that previous court rulings support that defense. The opposite is true, as is stated in the handbook quoted. I almost always verify the information I post, particularly when it is over a controversial matter. I have read the Act--many, many pages of it; I have read the handbook, and purused the list of protected birds. I have also read up on (although not the actual legislation) the other federal laws that protect raptors. The penalty portion of the Migratory Birds Treaty Act is halfway to being amended (has passed the house). Here is an excerpt:

`(d)(1) Except in the case of hunting and other activity allowed under section 3, whoever in violation of this Act kills or wounds a migratory bird in an aggravated manner shall, in lieu of any penalty for such violation--

`(A) for the first violation, be fined under title 18, United States Code, imprisoned for not more than one year, or both; and

`(B) for the second and any subsequent violation, be fined under title 18 of the United States Code, imprisoned for not more than 2 years, or both.

I am still looking for the amount of fines that passed; the original version called for up to $50K PER VIOLATION. There is a related bill in hte senate; here is an excerpt from it:

"`(c)(1) Except in the case of hunting and other activity allowed under section 3, whoever, in violation of this Act, intentionally and maliciously takes by any manner any migratory bird shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, shall be fined not more than $50,000 or imprisoned for not more than two years, or both, for each violation.

`(2) Any person who intentionally and maliciously commits any other act or omission in violation of this Act or any regulations issued under this Act shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, shall be fined not more than $50,000 or imprisoned for not more than two years, or both, for each violation."

Whether or not I agree with all the laws protecting raptors is immaterial. In fact, I do disagree with protecting a species that is not endangered and is actively attacking livestock or pets. But as long as the law stands, it IS the law, and should be respected as such. If you have a serious enough issue with it, by all means work to amend it or vote for those who will make the changes you want.

A couple of years ago I did have a problem with hawks cruising at low altitude through my yard DAILY. Needless to say all my birds were in lockdown during this time. I called our State Game & Fish Department to see what it would take to get a permit to have them relocated--they told me that only US Fish & Wildlife were able to issue permits, and that they were nearly impossible to get, and were usually ineffective (as the birds would usually make it home before their transportation did--we were talking 100s of miles relocation). Happily for my birds, as the season progressed, the birds migrated, as many of them do.​