Actual Feet Posture on Various Size Roosts (And Chicken's Preference)

[NatJ]

My hours of close observation of chicken feet settling down on the roost shows that chickens like to sleep flat footed, all four toes forward, hanging a tad over the front edge.

I find that very interesting, because any time I have checked chicken feet, they always have the back toe pointing backward.

They do this on narrow objects (the 1/2" thick edge of an upright piece of plywood, or the top of a fence board) and wider objects (2x2 board or the narrow edge of a 2x4, both really about 1 1/2" each way) and even wider objects (wide side of a 2x4, so really about 3 1/2" wide) and very wide objects (large flat piece of plywood, or the ground.)

So your statement that they have their back toe pointing forward has me really puzzled, because I've just never observed this. Maybe your chickens are different than the ones I've had?

 

[Outta Here]

Chickens walk along narrow things with a grip and they will perch on narrow roosts or branches with a grip for a short nap. But unless they are forced to sleep on a nighttime perch that is very narrow (about 1" or less), they sleep flat footed, not perching. "Chickens don't wrap their feet around a perch like wild birds do. They actually prefer to sleep flat-footed. This has an added benefit of keeping their feet protected from frostbite in the winter from below using the roost as protection and using their body as protection from above."
If you watch very closely as chickens sit down, at the last minute they will tuck the back toe forward with the rest. It is not gripping. And it is never splayed backward on a bench or the ground when they sit. All four toes are pointed the same direction, towards the front. Often they will cross their feet a little bit, like a cozy old woman, and their front toes will protrude a little over the front edge, if there is an edge.
It is difficult to actually see that last-minute tucking of the back toe forward, but if you can't watch that closely, you can feel behind them between their hocks and find there is no back toe gripping. It's tucked forward with the rest.

p.s. The difficulty in actually seeing them tuck that back toe forward and settle flat footed is why I posted this silly drawing!! The whole post tells my crazy experiments with different size roosts and what their feet did.

 

[NatJ]

If you watch very closely as chickens sit down, at the last minute they will tuck the back toe forward with the rest. It is not gripping. And it is never splayed backward on a bench or the ground when they sit. All four toes are pointed the same direction, towards the front. Often they will cross their feet a little bit, like a cozy old woman, and their front toes will protrude a little over the front edge, if there is an edge.
It is difficult to actually see that last-minute tucking of the back toe forward, but if you can't watch that closely, you can feel behind them between their hocks and find there is no back toe gripping. It's tucked forward with the rest.

But I have NOT seen that.

I will certainly do more observations, but since reading your posts I have walked out to a group of chickens roosting in the evening, already hunkered down to sleep, and checked the back toes, and I have found the back toe still pointing backward.

Yes, I will certainly be continuing to check as I have the opportunity, but I'm hoping some other people chime in with their observations too. Maybe it's one of those things where some chickens do it one way, and some do it the other way, (but I cannot think of what would make one entire flock do this differently than another flock.)

 

[Outta Here]

Perhaps the word to describe it is "tucked." Right before the hen settles down, the back toe is tucked along with the rest. Perhaps it doesn't point straight ahead as much as the others, but it's brought from rear gripping and walking position to a more forward tucked position for sleeping. But the real point is that chickens don't sleep like wild birds, perching, but flat-footed, and should have roosts that are wide enough to allow their front toes to hang over and their hocks to hang over the other side. Perhaps I'll replace my shelf with plexiglass in the interest of toe direction research!

 

[Outta Here]

A relative of mine assumed chickens needed a perch, so he stood 2x4 not just on edge, but tilted so the poor chickens were trying to balance (and potentially harming their keels) on the 1/4" edge!

 

[Outta Here]

Ok, I am now verifiably insane in my quest for science! I just spent the last half hour crawling around on the patio floor taking closeup video of my chicken's feet as they sat down and stood up. My very tame and long-suffering pullets were perplexed at my antics.
This back toe tucking happens so quickly right before their fluff hides their feet. And they untuck it so fast to stand up it's also very hard to detect.
Hence, my video of this morning. And even then, it's just a fast blur on the video playback, only clear in the slow motion setting. As Winnie was standing up from a 2" round pole, it recorded the left back toe still tucked forward with the other toes.
To recap in an effort to explain my madness, please read the whole post starting on July 1. The purpose of it all is trying to find the best roost width for comfort and foot and keel health. To do that, I had to determine their foot posture while roosting, which is that chickens don't perch with a grip but sleep flat footed, their front toes hanging over the front edge of the roost and their hocks hanging down. (2x4's flat side up work great!) But I also noticed, to give even more credence to the reality of their flat-footed sleeping posture, that they even tuck their back toe forward as they sit down. Just like we grip with our opposable thumbs backward and relax with them forward.
I probably could have come up with the same data by lulling one to sleep on my lap and feeling her toes! But the still shot verifies it better than my anecdotal observation.

 

[Outta Here]

When I say chickens sleep "flat-footed" I mean as opposed to gripping the roost (perching). But actually, their toes are not spread apart under them like when they walk--they are tucked close together, kind of scrunched like in the picture. Very often they cross their feet cozily. It reminds me of old ladies in the rocking chair clasping their hands under their bosoms for a snooze.

 

[Outta Here]

When I say chickens sleep "flat-footed" I mean as opposed to gripping the roost (perching). But actually, their toes are not spread apart under them like when they walk--they are tucked close together, kind of scrunched like in the picture. Very often they cross their feet cozily. It reminds me of old ladies in the rocking chair clasping their hands under their bosoms for a snooze.

Wow, holy grail! Today I was shocked and quickly snapped this picture when Nimpie paused mid-sit showing her tucked feet before settling down!!!!! To keep balance, they can only tuck that back toe forward and close their feet after they are nearly in the full sit position, and then their feathers hide their feet. So this is great to actually get a clear shot of how chickens roost on a normal size branch or board (here a 2x4 wide side up).

And here is a different pullet roosting temporarily on 1/2" plywood edge. When they are on a very narrow edge, they do have to clutch it between front and back toes, "perching" like a parakeet. But they don't choose that width for overnight roosting, whether a tree branch or board--what a horrid night's sleep that would be! And probably eventually damaging to their feet, too.

 

[McChooky]

I know roost width seems to be a controversial topic, and I don't have the final answer for everyone, just a few thoughts to throw into the mix. I've read all the commercial tests but decided to investigate with my own flock. Some say chickens don't care, but our chickens have no choice of roost except what we provide, so they adjust even if our roosts are not optimal for their comfort or health. Who knows whether we are causing foot or keel or leg problems with the wrong size roost?
I spent a lot of time over the past week watching chicken feet as they settle down to roost on various widths. I've even felt gently under them to see what positions their toes are in! Also, which toe position do they seem to prefer for overnight roosting? Over the past few days, I have substituted their roost with ones of various width, painted the same color. They accepted them all, except one, which half of them rejected. I live in Arizona, so cold feet will never be an issue.
My flock has been roosting on a 2x4 I ripped to measure exactly 2.5" wide on the flat side because I read somewhere that's the ideal width. It is completely strong enough to span 8'--does not bow at all with 1 huge rooster and 13 four- month-old pullets. They have access to a shelf in front of the elevated next boxes, also.

Note: All lumber is 1/2" smaller than its designation: 2x4 is actually 1.5"x3.5"

MY ROOST TEST RESULTS:
1. When my pullets and rooster settle on the 2.5" roost, they tuck, sometime cross, their feet cozily with about 1/4"- 1/2" of their toes over the front edge. Their back toes are tucked facing forward. They are not gripping/perching. They can balance and walk along the roost easily. Their keel comes in contact and about half of their leg. I wondered whether the edge (yes, it's rounded) puts pressure on this halfway point of their leg? Do they all roost on this size, showing their approval? Yes.

2. When they settle on a shelf, their tails can't hang down and their toes can't protrude over the edge. They nap on my lawn furniture cushions, but for night roosting, my flock rejects the shelf. They only resorted to it when I introduced the roost width half of them refused--2x4 on edge.

2. When they settle on a 2x4 on edge, they tuck, sometime cross, their feet cozily with about 1/4"- 1/2" of their toes over the front edge. Their back toes are tucked facing forward. They are still not gripping/perching. Balance walking along the roost is a bit more difficult. The pressure point on both the keel and midpoint of the leg is more acute. Do they all roost on this size, showing their approval? No, half of my flock refused it and settled on a shelf instead.

3. When they fly from their roost in the morning to greet me by perching on the 1/2" edge of a wall of plywood, their feet are very tightly curled, with the back toe facing backward, gripping. They are truly perching. Balance is very difficult, pressure point on keel is extreme. Do they like to stay there? Not for long.

5. When they settle on a 2x4 flat side up, they tuck, sometime cross, their feet cozily with about 1/4"-1/2" of their toes over the front edge. Their back toes are tucked facing forward. They are not gripping/perching. They can balance and walk along the roost easily. Pressure points on keel and leg is evenly distributed, except there is a pressure point on the larger rooster's legs. Do they all roost on this size, showing their approval? Yes.

6. When they settle on tree branches about 4"-6" diameter, they tuck, sometime cross, their feet cozily with about 1/4"- 1/2" of their toes over the front edge. Their back toes are tucked facing forward. They are not gripping/perching. Their keel contacts the branch, but much of their leg does not because of the roundness. They can walk along the branch easily. They seem to enjoy this roost. I wondered whether the roundness beneficially allows their legs to hang slightly downward? This is probably the most natural roost...

7. When they settle on the 2x6 flat side up, they tuck, sometime cross, their feet cozily with about 1/4"-1/2" of their toes over the front edge. Their back toes are tucked facing forward. They are not gripping/perching. They can balance and walk along the roost very easily. Their entire body is supported, with no pressure points on keel or legs, even the large rooster's. Do they all roost on this size, showing their approval? Yes. I believe they like this one the best, because of the comfort and because they can more easily crawl/hop over each other for the favored places along the roost. This is the one I will keep.

CONCLUSION:
So my personal observations on my little test is that chickens are very able to grip and perch tightly on very small diameter branches or dowels, but they are also able to walk and sleep flat-footed. This was true of their slim, high-flying ancestors, too. Their feet are amazing in their agility to mold to the contour of whatever size they must walk along or sleep on. But because they have this agility, does that mean they "need" or want to sleep perching like a parakeet? To achieve that, the roost or branch must be extremely narrow. Anything wider than 1" and they sleep flat-footed, back toe facing forward, front toes slightly over the edge. Do they choose a narrow perch freely? Are they actually "perchers" for nighttime sleeping? In the daytime, for a bit, sometimes. At night? No.
So my conclusion is that a wider roost (4"-6") makes balance easier, distributes weight and pressure points and is my flock's roost of choice. Someday I will try a 4"-6" branch if I can find an 8' long one! I have a feeling that might be perfection.

My lower roost is a 2 x 6 flat side down.Its T shaped -They like this roost.They also stand on it to jump up on the poop board higher up or land on it coming back down.The poop board is a wide piece of plywood with a 2 x4 attached flat of the edge-face down.This is their "look out" and has a window in front of it and vents. They can sleep on the plywood or perch on the 2 x 4 on the edge of the poop board.They always roost on the lower roost at night not the poop board farther up.Predators cant look in the window or see them if they're on the lower roost under the poop board.

 

[Ancacl7]

We are working on building our first coop and this is the article we used to learn the best roost design, so thank you for doing your hard work!! Our 12 chickens appreciate you helping these newbies out, haha!