Adventures with Ginger

[Isadora]

Reading through this thread makes me want to ride again. Ginger is a beautiful girl. You're doing a great job with her.

 

[Skye'sDucks]

Reading through this thread makes me want to ride again. Ginger is a beautiful girl. You're doing a great job with her.

Thank you!

 

[Skye'sDucks]

Back for a monthly update! Sorry this one is long

Ginger has been great, a few issues here and there but otherwise going well. I bet she'll be so happy once camp ends lol.

I think the worse issue is that she bit my sister the other day when she tried to lead her (we were doing bareback rides and the kids are scared to trot her by themselves bareback since she has such a big stride). I hurt my ankle the other week and I try not to run on it which is why I didn't do it. I was NOT happy, I probably would have yelled at her more but a kid was on her and everyone was watching so I toned it down a bit, but I still got after her for biting and afterwards I made sure she stood on her cross ties for a good 30 minutes and didn't give her any attention, water, hay, etc. She wasn't happy but it didn't kill her lol.

With being at camp with my sister and with rain and school, my schedule has been all over the place with working with Ginger, so hopefully once camp ends I can have more solid time to work with her and hopefully address this biting issue. I can't say she'll ever be cured of it (hey, she's a mare after all--ha) but I found this fascinating concept that a trainer on youtube had. He explained that with a horse that bit when being saddled/groomed or turns around to nip, it was actually the horse trying to make a connection with you, so he'd pet their nose and respond gently and it slowly got rid of the issue--and I swear when I am gentle and slow with Ginger and use this method she responds a lot better.
It's kinda hard to implement this though when I don't want ANYONE else doing it (aka haven't told anyone about it), even her leaser, because I don't want someone getting bit. I can't say Ginger wouldn't bite me ever, but I'm extremely confident she won't, because she never does. She knows me too well. She better not at least lol. Plus I like being the only one working on her with certain things, like ground work and this, because I know exactly how it's being done and all that.

Anyways, rant over about biting, Ginger has otherwise been doing good! Today she went amazing for me both on the ground and in the saddle, I was so happy. She's been learning all the 'lesson horse tricks' from kids who can't make her do stuff since they're beginners. At least she quits trying when she realizes I won't let her get away with it. Today she didn't do anything funny at all. (turning into the middle, trying to drag me to the gate, stopping at the trot, etc).

Ground work has been going so well! I started doing backing up with a buffer of space between us, and also turning the front and hind end with a buffer of space. She picks it up quick but is still learning and gets confused with some stuff, and isn't perfect, but that's fine. I'm happiest seeing progress--and today she showed a ton of it from the last time I did it, which was Friday.
She likes to follow me on her left side when I step out to make her turn her hind or front end, which is the biggest problem, and I honestly wonder if it's because she doesn't have great sight in that eye. She showed significant improvement in this today, though, so hopefully she's picking up on what I want. It'll just take some time!

Other issues I didn't mention above are that she's got a mysterious runny nose with her right nostril--we think it's some kind of allergy since she's not off or otherwise sick and no horses have gone out to shows or things like that in a while. We're keeping an eye on it but hopefully it'll clear up on its own soon.

The other Ginger Mystery is figuring out which girth is giving her little rub marks on her girth area--and over the weekend she now has two bald spots higher up on her girth area, too. We've been using several different girths recently with camp and all; we figured out a western one was too small but the bald spots are weird. It's not my saddle I use on her and I doubt its her leaser's since that is fluffy wool and she bought it specifically for Ginger. Guess this week we'll hopefully figure it out...

Lots of things happening this month lol!

 

[Skye'sDucks]

Dumping some photos here of Ginger girl

(Excuse how dirty her stall was in the one pic--it was mostly wet from rain and was cleaned the same day)

Ginger's been good: she actually got a new summer cut because her mane was just soo thick and long that she was getting so hot and sweaty from it. I failed to get pictures on Friday aha but she looks adorable and already is sweating less on her neck now that it's short.

She's definitely picked up habits from camp, but that'll just take some time to work them out again.
She actually nipped me during the last day of camp--granted it was partially my fault for standing right next to her nose when I knew she was being extra angry about everything. A kid was hosing/sweat scraping her off and she always nips to the side--we've worked together so long she has always stopped herself from biting me, so I've stood right by her face plenty of times and she's never done it, but I wasn't so lucky that day lol. Even so, I got after her good for that and shut her in her stall for the rest of the day and was pretty angry at her for doing that.

Anyways...ground work is still a big work in progress--she has suddenly 'forgotten' all of the progress we had and now just continually walks forward when I try to get her to turn her hind quarters both directions. Have no idea why when she was getting it down so well. I can pretty much see the cogs turning in Ginger's head--she's really thinking and trying to figure out what I want, she's just not totally understanding HOW I want her to do it.
Because she will anticipate me and try to do things ahead of time, at least how she thinks she's supposed to do it. (like turning her hind quarters or fore) Yesterday I was working on turning her right hind, and I barely took a step back to go to her left side and she started turning her left hind end. The only time she's been pivoting is like this or if she doesn't want me on that left side, which is another issue she's had.

Dunno if anyone knows how to remedy this, besides just keeping at it. Ginger has taken a couple of correct steps, and on her right side is doing almost perfect with moving her front end. Her left...not so much. I think because she doesn't have great sight in that eye it affects her. Maybe not, I dunno.

I'm gonna try to get lots more pictures this coming week so hopefully I'll have some more to share!

 

[Isadora]

Dumping some photos here of Ginger girl

(Excuse how dirty her stall was in the one pic--it was mostly wet from rain and was cleaned the same day)

Ginger's been good: she actually got a new summer cut because her mane was just soo thick and long that she was getting so hot and sweaty from it. I failed to get pictures on Friday aha but she looks adorable and already is sweating less on her neck now that it's short.

She's definitely picked up habits from camp, but that'll just take some time to work them out again.
She actually nipped me during the last day of camp--granted it was partially my fault for standing right next to her nose when I knew she was being extra angry about everything. A kid was hosing/sweat scraping her off and she always nips to the side--we've worked together so long she has always stopped herself from biting me, so I've stood right by her face plenty of times and she's never done it, but I wasn't so lucky that day lol. Even so, I got after her good for that and shut her in her stall for the rest of the day and was pretty angry at her for doing that.

Anyways...ground work is still a big work in progress--she has suddenly 'forgotten' all of the progress we had and now just continually walks forward when I try to get her to turn her hind quarters both directions. Have no idea why when she was getting it down so well. I can pretty much see the cogs turning in Ginger's head--she's really thinking and trying to figure out what I want, she's just not totally understanding HOW I want her to do it.
Because she will anticipate me and try to do things ahead of time, at least how she thinks she's supposed to do it. (like turning her hind quarters or fore) Yesterday I was working on turning her right hind, and I barely took a step back to go to her left side and she started turning her left hind end. The only time she's been pivoting is like this or if she doesn't want me on that left side, which is another issue she's had.

Dunno if anyone knows how to remedy this, besides just keeping at it. Ginger has taken a couple of correct steps, and on her right side is doing almost perfect with moving her front end. Her left...not so much. I think because she doesn't have great sight in that eye it affects her. Maybe not, I dunno.

I'm gonna try to get lots more pictures this coming week so hopefully I'll have some more to share!

That last photo is awesome.

 

[littledog]

It's too bad Ginger had to go to camp - she was making such good progress with just you and the other leaser, but it seems like poor Ginger having to put up with a variety of random kids doing random things with her has set her training back a bit and promoted some bad habits.

The first picture, her colorful mane looks cute and all, but she looks sad and annoyed. I could be wrong just judging from pictures, but she seems like the type of mare who does better bonding with her own person, or just a couple people. Biting means she's super annoyed, maybe even scared, like to the point of feeling she has to protect herself.

I don't think confining her in a stall for a long time was a good punishment for biting you. Horses only understand consequences when they're immediate (like within a couple seconds) but it might have been the best thing to do to calm her down and let her chill out by herself in her stall, if she was worked up and angry.

Oh well, hopefully camp will be over soon and your lovely Ginger will be back to a predictable set of riders and lessons, which will make her happier. Getting back to her normal schedule will help her remember the training you and she were working on. She's a super nice horse and I'm sure you and she will make great progress together soon!

 

[Skye'sDucks]

That last photo is awesome.

Thanks! Lol she's such a goofball

It's too bad Ginger had to go to camp - she was making such good progress with just you and the other leaser, but it seems like poor Ginger having to put up with a variety of random kids doing random things with her has set her training back a bit and promoted some bad habits.

The first picture, her colorful mane looks cute and all, but she looks sad and annoyed. I could be wrong just judging from pictures, but she seems like the type of mare who does better bonding with her own person, or just a couple people. Biting means she's super annoyed, maybe even scared, like to the point of feeling she has to protect herself.

I don't think confining her in a stall for a long time was a good punishment for biting you. Horses only understand consequences when they're immediate (like within a couple seconds) but it might have been the best thing to do to calm her down and let her chill out by herself in her stall, if she was worked up and angry.

Oh well, hopefully camp will be over soon and your lovely Ginger will be back to a predictable set of riders and lessons, which will make her happier. Getting back to her normal schedule will help her remember the training you and she were working on. She's a super nice horse and I'm sure you and she will make great progress together soon!

Thank you so much for the thoughtful post--it really helps me look at her from a different angle and how to treat her and her issues. I will certainly keep this in mind from now on!

Ginger is definitely a one-person horse who needed someone to love her. She was very shy and kept to herself and we've watched her really come out of her shell since coming here in only the last few months.
I think I wrote her story out here, but basically she grew pretty attached apparently to her old owner, but sadly her old owner was a beginner to horses and too scared of Ginger and ended up selling her to us. I had a couple of solid months where I was pretty much the only one working with her (sometimes they would use her in the round pen in like beginner lessons if they needed to) and so we got to really bond and I gave her the gentle love and care that had never been given to her before. We were all in agreement that Ginger really needed one person she could trust and grow with before being used for lessons.

I do agree with you that she's annoyed in that picture: Ginger really hated being used so much but my barn has only a few lesson horses and they wanted and pretty much needed to use her and I didn't really have a say in the matter since she's not my horse. Her situation isn't really perfect for her, I'll admit--not to say anything against my barn necessarily--but I try to do the very best with her no matter what the circumstances are.

And seriously, you gave me a new perspective that I hadn't even looked at when punishing her for biting. Hopefully she won't do it again lol, but I will try not to be so harsh with her next time if it does happen.

If I'm being entirely honest, I really do feel like they started to use Ginger too early--especially leasing her out. And camp really did set her back and wasn't really good for her, but again, I didn't really have a say in the matter and so I've just kinda had to go along with it and do my best to help Ginger continually and as much as I can.

I agree that now she can settle back into a normal schedule and not get used so much, so hopefully she will start to feel better and happier. She is truly such a sweet, amazing horse, and she's taught me just as much as I've taught her! I feel badly about mistakes I've made or ways that I could have handled things better, but all I can do is see them clearly, learn from them, and keep trying to do better. Thanks for following along with our journey and helping me

 

[littledog]

Yeah, I can't really find too much (maybe a little) fault with the barn, either - but I totally get that a lesson barn needs their horses to do a job, otherwise how would they afford to pay the hay bill? It would have been better to give Ginger more time to settle in, but summer camp happens when Summer happens...at least you were there to help out with the kids, handle Ginger, and prevent her from munching up too many children!

More about biting, or really any bad behavior you want to stop: A "time-out" like when you put Ginger by herself in the cross-ties or in her stall is a good way to get her out of the situation that was upsetting her and get her to chill out. This is a good thing, especially since she probably had a legitimate reason to be upset, even though her reaction (biting) was out of proportion. But it does nothing to teach her to not nip again when she is annoyed next time. Like I mentioned earlier, the punishment has to happen immediately, like within a couple seconds - and I'm wrong to even call it "punishment" - it should be "natural consequences for her actions." By this I mean, you need to set up the situation so that when she does the wrong thing, it turns out unpleasant for her and makes it seem like she did it to herself.

For example, horses usually give warning signs before they bite or kick, like lay their ears back, give you the mean eye, or twist their noses/lips in a crabby way. When you see this, give them a verbal warning, like a loud "Uh Ah Ah!" but keep doing what you're doing, like tightening their girth or whatever, without even looking at her (except out of the corner of your eye to see what she does, lol.) Raise your elbow so the pointy part will be in the way if she comes around to bite you, so if she tries to bite she gets a pointy jab on the nose instead a mouthful of flesh. All the while, just keep doing what you're doing and pretend nothing happened - in this way, she doesn't associate the unpleasant consequence with you, in her mind it becomes "I try to bite = pointy nose jab." And after a few tries, it becomes in her mind, "When I hear 'Uh Uh Ah' I better not do what I'm thinking about doing, or else the pointy nose jab will come next."

Of course, in the meantime, you need to really figure out and fix what is upsetting her. You said earlier, she is getting rubs from her girth? If tacking up or tightening the girth is when she tries to bite, that's what needs to be fixed. You could change the routine, and make girthing more comfortable for her, like tack her up loosely, walk her around before you tighten the girth to the next hole, then stretch out each front leg before you tighten the girth all the way, so that her hair and skin is smooth under the girth and not being pinched or irritated when she's ridden.

I ran into this issue myself, just last week - my Fiona acted a bit crabby when I was tightening her girth which she's never done before, and I always do the "walk a bit, tighten the girth a bit, stretch her legs, then tighten all the way" routine before I ride her. But she's been working harder recently, doing more strenuous lessons - and when I was grooming her after our ride, I noticed some spots where her girth was rubbing and causing irritation behind her elbows. So I got her a fleece girth cover, and so far it looks good - the girth seems to not rub any more, and the hair on the sensitive skin behind her elbows is growing back.

Fiona's a sensitive horse (OTTB who was a loser on the racetrack, later rescued from a killer auction by a friend of mine ) who needs to be ridden with light and subtle aids - she freaks out if my hands get too heavy or if I get unbalanced on her sensitive back - she's definitely teaching me to be lighter and kinder, a better rider - but she returns kindness tenfold - super affectionate, loves pets and attention, and will try to do whatever I ask of her as long as I ask kindly.

Your lovely Ginger gives me the impression that she has a similar personality. Keep doing what you're doing - be as firm as you need to be in the instant she misbehaves, then immediately let it go and continue on as your kind and consistent self. Ginger will learn from you - and you seem like a "thinking" type of rider who will go far as a horse person yourself.

 

[Skye'sDucks]

I definitely agree and was very happy I got to work with Ginger during summer camp! I sure didn't want her biting anyone lol and I'm glad I got to help the kids care for her and ride her, too.
If anything, I already mentioned it, I believe she may have been leased out a little early, not necessarily about the lessons as much--and I only say that because her being leased out is what severely limited what I can do with Ginger in the saddle with riding. I have nothing against her leaser--she's a lovely lady who loves Ginger very much and does an awesome job with her--it's just now I personally can't work on any problems Ginger has under saddle very much. I can at least do lots of work with Ginger on the ground still (and at first I didn't always do this because I am still new to training horses and didn't really know or think of it at first lol). But also as you mentioned, Ginger needs to earn her keep, which is the tricky part of trying to train and use a lesson horse at the same time.

I think I forgot to mention this in my last update post, but we have pretty much figured out what caused the rubbing marks on her--it was a too-small western girth on one of the kid saddles we use. I swapped it out with a properly sized one that has fleece on it, and we try to use her fleece english girth as much as possible, but I think some saddles just don't fit with that girth. It's not mine or her leaser's girth--her leaser has a big, fluffy girth and although the one I use isn't fluffy, I've used that same girth on her for months before this issue ever came up, and it has never caused any issues before or now. Her rub marks are pretty much healed, but two small new ones appeared I think last week, and we're pretty certain it was because they used a different english girth on her. Most lesson takers at our barn ride english so we can pretty much figure out the western girths very easily since we don't have too many western saddles and girths.

Personally, I feel as if she's just a grumpy, 'typical mare' that gets sick of things and shows it when she's upset or disgruntled. She'll try nipping or chomp down on her lead rope and chew on it for lots of things--especially after camp. Currently I have to watch when I do her front feet because she'll turn around and nip--and that isn't even related to saddling or her girth.
I also feel as if it could be linked to her past--I know for a fact she wasn't in good hands previously and she could be angry about being touched on her belly/barrel/girth area and saddled because she was handled roughly or used too much--I really can't say, but it is a possibility. We only know a little of her past and while she wasn't beaten to my knowledge, some of the stories make me cringe a little and feel very bad for her.

Ginger does sound a lot like your Fiona--except she never made it to the official track (she doesn't even have a tattoo); I believe she was done in kind of 'underground' racing or whatever it is that happens here. She really hates pressure on her mouth and does much better with lots of leg pressure and light and subtle cues too.

I agree with you about biting, too. I will try that although sometimes she doesn't totally reach around to nip so it may be hard to do the elbow thing always, but I will certainly try. I have, though, always used my voice and done what you said; the 'nuh uh uh' or a negative noise if she tries anything, and she is pretty responsive because she knows she'll get 'punished' if she gets too close or actually bites.
As I mentioned, the 'unpleasant' thing I have done as a result of her biting is slapping her neck, snatching on her lead rope, and yelling/making the negative noises at her. I'm always very careful around her and I've never wanted or have 'whacked' her face like you can with other horses because she's head shy and wasn't always treated right. I want to make it unpleasant enough like you said, and also let her know her biting isn't tolerated, but at the same time I adjust it to what I know she can take. I don't ever want to worsen her fears or shyness and put her in that position again. As you said, I want to be firm enough to teach her not to, but not to the point of being mean about it. And I do what you also mentioned: I'm always calm and gentle with her afterwards, too, because I don't want her to think I'm just mad at her all the time.

And thank you so much--both for your kind compliments and your help and advice! It has been a huge learning curve in discovering how to work with Ginger and address each unique 'issue' of hers, and it in general has widened my knowledge and experience around horses so much. As I've said, I think Ginger and I are teaching each other, and we have both grown a lot through working together. Honestly after helping train her I have seriously started considering becoming a horse trainer or at least working with them permanently. It's such an amazing experience to help and train horses and watch them grow and flourish!

 

[littledog]

I feel as if she's just a grumpy, 'typical mare' that gets sick of things and shows it when she's upset or disgruntled.

LOL, mares (stallions too) will definitely let you know when something's bothering them! My gelding is like that too, though - chatting with the folks who work at our barn, I called him an "honorary mare" which made them laugh.

I believe she was done in kind of 'underground' racing or whatever it is that happens here.

Oooh, no, poor Ginger - the way those horses are handled can be so cruel. Pulling them around and forcing them to behave by cranking on their ears - that would definitely explain her being headshy! So good that your barn saved her from the fate that often happens for those horses. She deserves better - really they all do.

I'm always very careful around her and I've never wanted or have 'whacked' her face

I adjust it to what I know she can take. I don't ever want to worsen her fears or shyness and put her in that position again.

Ginger's lucky to have you for such a good friend. I'm rooting for her too - please give her a carrot from me, next time she's being good

And thank you so much--both for your kind compliments and your help and advice! It has been a huge learning curve in discovering how to work with Ginger and address each unique 'issue' of hers, and it in general has widened my knowledge and experience around horses so much. As I've said, I think Ginger and I are teaching each other, and we have both grown a lot through working together. Honestly after helping train her I have seriously started considering becoming a horse trainer or at least working with them permanently. It's such an amazing experience to help and train horses and watch them grow and flourish!

Thank you, too! I just love chatting about horses with people who help me learn more, and those who I can help them learn, too. Hearing about your learning curve with your lovely Ginger has inspired me be more observant and patient with both my horses, especially Fiona who came from a sketchy past, too - horses are individuals just as we are, and the more tools we learn - barn skills as much as riding skills, the better we can do for them.

When I was young, I used to be jealous of the kids at my barn who won all the competitions on their wonderfully-trained horses, bought for $$$ by parents who wanted to see their kid win prizes. It wasn't until I got older (after most of those kids had lost interest and quit riding) that I learned caring for horses properly (including plenty of poop-scooping) is what real horsemanship is about. And working with and riding the more difficult horses who are quirky, or have issues due to a challenging past, teaches us to be the right kind of horse people. Then, any prizes we might happen to win at a competition (or even not, if we had fun and learned something and the horse had a positive experience) have way much more real meaning.