Advice on trimming crossbeak

[OldMcDonald512]

Hi peeps

I've got a chickie with cross beak and I could use some advice on how to trim it. I'll attach some pictures, but my question is basically what angle I should be trimming it at. The bottom goes pretty far out and the quick is grown out as well. I've been using a Dremel to grind it down but can only take off a few millimeters before it starts to bleed. I do it about once a week and it seems to be growing faster than I'm trimming. I would find it really helpful if someone could draw on the image a line of what I should be aiming for her beak to look like, with advice on how to get it there.

Also, she does eat (slowly) and drinks normally, but her mouth is never closed and I can see the tip of her tongue getting dry. With winter coming in new england I want to make sure that isn't going to be a problem for her.

Thanks in advance!

 

[coach723]

Basically you just trim to keep them normal length. You don't want the bottom a lot longer than the top, or vice-versa. That makes it even harder for them to pick things up. So compare with other normal beaks. And try very hard not to get into the quick, that hurts. Beak growth speed can vary, and since it's a young bird it's growing fast. As she gets older it may not need it quite as often, but time will tell. Sometimes the condition gets worse as they grow, so you will need to watch and make sure she's still able to feed well. If you are not already, feeding in deeper open dishes that are raised up a bit, and making a mash by mixing crumbles or pellets with some water (experiment with consistency/thinner or thicker) can make it easier for them to eat. Same with water, a deeper open dish that is raised up.

 

[OldMcDonald512]

Basically you just trim to keep them normal length. You don't want the bottom a lot longer than the top, or vice-versa. That makes it even harder for them to pick things up. So compare with other normal beaks. And try very hard not to get into the quick, that hurts. Beak growth speed can vary, and since it's a young bird it's growing fast. As she gets older it may not need it quite as often, but time will tell. Sometimes the condition gets worse as they grow, so you will need to watch and make sure she's still able to feed well. If you are not already, feeding in deeper open dishes that are raised up a bit, and making a mash by mixing crumbles or pellets with some water (experiment with consistency/thinner or thicker) can make it easier for them to eat. Same with water, a deeper open dish that is raised up.

Thank you for your reply! I'll keep up with it as often as I can for now, hopefully the growth slows eventually. My biggest concern with her is that I initially thought the cross was from either top or bottom growing longer and physically preventing the alignment of the jaw. But now that I've trimmed quite a bit, they're not making contact, yet still growing outwards from each other. Even when I get them to a similar length, she still won't have that good top over bottom alignment. I guess all that matters is she's still able to eat, drink and preen so I'll definelty keep monitoring that. We did switch to the little cup waterers and got the feeding cups where they stick their head right into a bucket of feed so she's able to cram as much as she wants into her face lol. And I often sit with her and have her eat some mash. Glad to hear I'm on the right track, thank you!

 

[Wingstem]

I don't know for sure if this could help or if the angles of your chickie's beak would allow it, but you may want to try physical therapy and taping the beak in place at night. I've gotten significant improvement for my little girl doing this. If you are able to gently move her beak into the correct position or very close to correct, then I think it's possible you could achieve some improvement.

My chick is 7 1/2 weeks old. She hatched with crossbeak and parrot beak (short lower beak), and with rapid change and growth, she was quickly unable to forage and was well on her way to having serious difficulties eating her feed, but she can now forage again and is doing very well!

I'm still working through this all and am not positive that it will be a cure of any kind. My hope is that once she stops growing, the corrections I make now during growth will maintain and be permanent, but I don't know if that will happen. Hopefully at the least, it will be a simpler form of maintenance...

I felt I needed to share what experience I have so far in hopes of helping your chickie, if possible. I think you may have a very good chance of quickly improving your chickie's quality of life!

Unfortunately, I don't have any good photos before taping... I wasn't expecting such quick results. Here she is on September 28th, the day after I started taping. Her beak had slipped back all the way to where it was before taping the night before.




Two days later on September 30th, her beak is already maintaining improvements...






October 6th, she's foraging again! It made my heart so happy to see her joyfully grasping grass...


October 9th...






I first tried physical therapy alone, but even with multiple times a day, it wasn't enough to keep the changes in check and then I found this post: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...r-flock-today.1371402/page-1284#post-27058382 where @ChicksnMore used tape to correct a crossbeak successfully. I didn't realize at first that it was a crossbeak caused by an injury (rather than a birth defect like mine has), but I had nothing to lose, so I tried it.

After the first night I taped, her beak was very close to correct the next morning, but within an hour it was back to where it was before taping... the next day it was good for a little over an hour... and each day it continued to stay in place longer until it was maintaining all day in a correct or near correct position.

She came down with coccidiosis (she's since recovered) and I stopped the taping for a few days to avoid any added stress with the extra handling. It was also becoming hard to keep the tape in place with the short beak, so as a result of those two things she had regressed a bit, but I'm working on managing/correcting the parrot beak as well and will put together a more detailed thread on her journey once I have more to show.

Here's our routine...

Every evening after she's gotten a good fill of feed and is ready to roost, I do physical therapy for 15 minutes. I wrap her in a towel to hold her still and keep her comfy and gently but firmly push the lower beak a little past the correct position and hold it for as long as she'll let me, usually only a couple of minutes (or a few seconds!) at the most... or I will just repeatedly push and release in a gentle fluid motion. At first it feels a bit stiff, but quickly loosens up and the movement becomes soft and easy. She often snoozes while I do this.

Then I tape the beak closed with the lower beak as correctly aligned as possible using a thin strip of kinesiology tape. I avoid covering her nares (nostrils) and tape tight enough that the beak can't open or come loose. There's a little fussing during taping most nights, but she quickly relaxes and there's no fighting. Then I pop her onto a roost in a dark box with her siblings for the night. Right now she's getting 12 hours in the tape. I often check her just to make sure the tape hasn't slipped before I go to bed.

Here's what the taping looks like...




In addition, to the physical therapy and taping, I do trim her beak as needed. I just trim any overgrowth that becomes too long and hinders proper closure of her beak, using the "quick" as my guide and keeping it a short length beyond it, to avoid bleeding. I like using an electric manicure tool because it's small and lightweight. https://www.amazon.com/Alety-Electric-Portable-Professional-Manicure/dp/B0C2V6SMFY

Here is a link to the tape I use: https://www.amazon.com/OK-TAPE-Kinesiology-Therapeutic-2in×16-4ft/dp/B0BJ248CVZ

I hope this helps!

 

[Crazy Chicken Keeper]

WOW Amazing! Do I just use a bandage or do I use sellotape,gaffer tape,whatever? Your cross-beaked chicken is much worse thanmine. So I hope this works!

 

[Wingstem]

WOW Amazing! Do I just use a bandage or do I use sellotape,gaffer tape,whatever? Your cross-beaked chicken is much worse thanmine. So I hope this works!

Yes, your chick looks much less severe than mine, I really hope this works well for her! How old is your chick? I didn't notice the crossbeak in mine until she was 10 days old.... it was very minor, but progressed rapidly.

Here's the tape I use: https://www.amazon.com/OK-TAPE-Kinesiology-Therapeutic-2in×16-4ft/dp/B0BJ248CVZ It's an elastic tape which helps it conform to the beak and the adhesive is strong enough that it holds well, but is easy to remove. And it since it has a little give to it, she can actually move a tiny bit while taped which I think helps even more because she is flexing and strengthening her muscles while her beak is in the correct position.

Let me know how it goes for you!

 

[Crazy Chicken Keeper]

5 weeks

 

[Crazy Chicken Keeper]

It is a skull thing - it grew funny from her skull

 

[SunnyClucks]

I don't know for sure if this could help or if the angles of your chickie's beak would allow it, but you may want to try physical therapy and taping the beak in place at night. I've gotten significant improvement for my little girl doing this. If you are able to gently move her beak into the correct position or very close to correct, then I think it's possible you could achieve some improvement.

My chick is 7 1/2 weeks old. She hatched with crossbeak and parrot beak (short lower beak), and with rapid change and growth, she was quickly unable to forage and was well on her way to having serious difficulties eating her feed, but she can now forage again and is doing very well!

I'm still working through this all and am not positive that it will be a cure of any kind. My hope is that once she stops growing, the corrections I make now during growth will maintain and be permanent, but I don't know if that will happen. Hopefully at the least, it will be a simpler form of maintenance...

I felt I needed to share what experience I have so far in hopes of helping your chickie, if possible. I think you may have a very good chance of quickly improving your chickie's quality of life!

Unfortunately, I don't have any good photos before taping... I wasn't expecting such quick results. Here she is on September 28th, the day after I started taping. Her beak had slipped back all the way to where it was before taping the night before.
View attachment 4238664

View attachment 4238665

Two days later on September 30th, her beak is already maintaining improvements...
View attachment 4238666

View attachment 4238667

View attachment 4238668

October 6th, she's foraging again! It made my heart so happy to see her joyfully grasping grass...
View attachment 4238669

October 9th...
View attachment 4238670

View attachment 4238671

View attachment 4238672

I first tried physical therapy alone, but even with multiple times a day, it wasn't enough to keep the changes in check and then I found this post: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...r-flock-today.1371402/page-1284#post-27058382 where @ChicksnMore used tape to correct a crossbeak successfully. I didn't realize at first that it was a crossbeak caused by an injury (rather than a birth defect like mine has), but I had nothing to lose, so I tried it.

After the first night I taped, her beak was very close to correct the next morning, but within an hour it was back to where it was before taping... the next day it was good for a little over an hour... and each day it continued to stay in place longer until it was maintaining all day in a correct or near correct position.

She came down with coccidiosis (she's since recovered) and I stopped the taping for a few days to avoid any added stress with the extra handling. It was also becoming hard to keep the tape in place with the short beak, so as a result of those two things she had regressed a bit, but I'm working on managing/correcting the parrot beak as well and will put together a more detailed thread on her journey once I have more to show.

Here's our routine...

Every evening after she's gotten a good fill of feed and is ready to roost, I do physical therapy for 15 minutes. I wrap her in a towel to hold her still and keep her comfy and gently but firmly push the lower beak a little past the correct position and hold it for as long as she'll let me, usually only a couple of minutes (or a few seconds!) at the most... or I will just repeatedly push and release in a gentle fluid motion. At first it feels a bit stiff, but quickly loosens up and the movement becomes soft and easy. She often snoozes while I do this.

Then I tape the beak closed with the lower beak as correctly aligned as possible using a thin strip of kinesiology tape. I avoid covering her nares (nostrils) and tape tight enough that the beak can't open or come loose. There's a little fussing during taping most nights, but she quickly relaxes and there's no fighting. Then I pop her onto a roost in a dark box with her siblings for the night. Right now she's getting 12 hours in the tape. I often check her just to make sure the tape hasn't slipped before I go to bed.

Here's what the taping looks like...
View attachment 4238673

View attachment 4238674

In addition, to the physical therapy and taping, I do trim her beak as needed. I just trim any overgrowth that becomes too long and hinders proper closure of her beak, using the "quick" as my guide and keeping it a short length beyond it, to avoid bleeding. I like using an electric manicure tool because it's small and lightweight. https://www.amazon.com/Alety-Electric-Portable-Professional-Manicure/dp/B0C2V6SMFY

Here is a link to the tape I use: https://www.amazon.com/OK-TAPE-Kinesiology-Therapeutic-2in×16-4ft/dp/B0BJ248CVZ

I hope this helps!

Thanks for all the great guidance. I have 3 week old EE that I just noticed may be developing a cross. Right now ther is just a little gap and no cross but I may trim and do PT on her in hopes of getting ahead of it. Thanks again

 

[akitafriendakita]

I don't know for sure if this could help or if the angles of your chickie's beak would allow it, but you may want to try physical therapy and taping the beak in place at night. I've gotten significant improvement for my little girl doing this. If you are able to gently move her beak into the correct position or very close to correct, then I think it's possible you could achieve some improvement.

My chick is 7 1/2 weeks old. She hatched with crossbeak and parrot beak (short lower beak), and with rapid change and growth, she was quickly unable to forage and was well on her way to having serious difficulties eating her feed, but she can now forage again and is doing very well!

I'm still working through this all and am not positive that it will be a cure of any kind. My hope is that once she stops growing, the corrections I make now during growth will maintain and be permanent, but I don't know if that will happen. Hopefully at the least, it will be a simpler form of maintenance...

I felt I needed to share what experience I have so far in hopes of helping your chickie, if possible. I think you may have a very good chance of quickly improving your chickie's quality of life!

Unfortunately, I don't have any good photos before taping... I wasn't expecting such quick results. Here she is on September 28th, the day after I started taping. Her beak had slipped back all the way to where it was before taping the night before.
View attachment 4238664

View attachment 4238665

Two days later on September 30th, her beak is already maintaining improvements...
View attachment 4238666

View attachment 4238667

View attachment 4238668

October 6th, she's foraging again! It made my heart so happy to see her joyfully grasping grass...
View attachment 4238669

October 9th...
View attachment 4238670

View attachment 4238671

View attachment 4238672

I first tried physical therapy alone, but even with multiple times a day, it wasn't enough to keep the changes in check and then I found this post: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...r-flock-today.1371402/page-1284#post-27058382 where @ChicksnMore used tape to correct a crossbeak successfully. I didn't realize at first that it was a crossbeak caused by an injury (rather than a birth defect like mine has), but I had nothing to lose, so I tried it.

After the first night I taped, her beak was very close to correct the next morning, but within an hour it was back to where it was before taping... the next day it was good for a little over an hour... and each day it continued to stay in place longer until it was maintaining all day in a correct or near correct position.

She came down with coccidiosis (she's since recovered) and I stopped the taping for a few days to avoid any added stress with the extra handling. It was also becoming hard to keep the tape in place with the short beak, so as a result of those two things she had regressed a bit, but I'm working on managing/correcting the parrot beak as well and will put together a more detailed thread on her journey once I have more to show.

Here's our routine...

Every evening after she's gotten a good fill of feed and is ready to roost, I do physical therapy for 15 minutes. I wrap her in a towel to hold her still and keep her comfy and gently but firmly push the lower beak a little past the correct position and hold it for as long as she'll let me, usually only a couple of minutes (or a few seconds!) at the most... or I will just repeatedly push and release in a gentle fluid motion. At first it feels a bit stiff, but quickly loosens up and the movement becomes soft and easy. She often snoozes while I do this.

Then I tape the beak closed with the lower beak as correctly aligned as possible using a thin strip of kinesiology tape. I avoid covering her nares (nostrils) and tape tight enough that the beak can't open or come loose. There's a little fussing during taping most nights, but she quickly relaxes and there's no fighting. Then I pop her onto a roost in a dark box with her siblings for the night. Right now she's getting 12 hours in the tape. I often check her just to make sure the tape hasn't slipped before I go to bed.

Here's what the taping looks like...
View attachment 4238673

View attachment 4238674

In addition, to the physical therapy and taping, I do trim her beak as needed. I just trim any overgrowth that becomes too long and hinders proper closure of her beak, using the "quick" as my guide and keeping it a short length beyond it, to avoid bleeding. I like using an electric manicure tool because it's small and lightweight. https://www.amazon.com/Alety-Electric-Portable-Professional-Manicure/dp/B0C2V6SMFY

Here is a link to the tape I use: https://www.amazon.com/OK-TAPE-Kinesiology-Therapeutic-2in×16-4ft/dp/B0BJ248CVZ

I hope this helps!

This is impressive, I have two crossbeaks although their cases are much more severe. Also they're fully grown, is it possible to still try physical therapy with them? They're fine with me handling their beak considering that I trim them, they also eat fine so I never really considered therapy but maybe it would be worth trying.