All 3 leghorns gurgling for a while now...

[Jeffross1968]

Out of my flock of 10 birds, 9 laying age hens and a young roo, I have 3 brown leghorns. If they guy we bought them from was truthful, they should be around 10 months, though we've been doubting they are that old, since in the 2 months we've had them, only one has laid over the last 6 weeks, and it's been very irregular and always very small pullet sized eggs, and 1 who just started laying a couple days ago, also small eggs. Anyway, a little over a week ago I noticed one of them gurgling, beak open. Was a very hot day (though, for around here it was hot, maybe 90ish up here on the ridge where live). I posted because she seemed a bit heat worn, and I had never heard that noise before. Skip ahead to a couple days ago, and now all 3 leghorns are making the noise. It's hot again, after a couple cooler days. They 'appear' to be acting normal otherwise, eating and drinking as usual. There doesn't seem to be any fluids coming from the eyes or nose, but the gurgling persists, and of course I'm getting a little worried.

It seems like the noise is coming while either breathing in, or out. None of the other birds are experiencing anything like this. Yesterday I got some sav a chick from TSC, and added it to their water. Don't know if that's a total waste or not, but it was cheap. Could something like this be a breed specific sound that occurs when it's hot? Could just the three of them be experiencing some kind of respiratory infection?

EDIT: Also, all 3 seem to do a lot of sneezing during the day.

 

[NottinghamChicks]

Sounds like CRD and they all need to be medicated. They will all be carriers and you cannot sell them to others. They are essentially yours for life now.

There is lots of reading to do now. Good luck and remember it's not a death sentence just a hump.

 

[dawg53]

Quote:
x2
Here's a link to respiratory diseases:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044
It could be MG or MS, no telling though. Try treating with denegard. I've read alot of good things about it. It is for swine but can be used for chickens. No resistance and no withdrawal, type "denegard" in the BYC search box and read up on it if you wish.

 

[Jeffross1968]

Thanks for the replies. So, I've only done a little bit of reading since the CRD was brought up, but I keep seeing other symptoms listed like droopy, crusty eyes, and discharge from nostrils and eyes. I see none of that. In fact, other than the weird gurgling (which we just noticed completely stops when it cools off at night and they are relaxed in the coop) and the sneezes, there is zero sign anything is wrong.

Would I medicate the entire flock? What happens if it is some kind of CRD, and I try and let it run it's course. Am I faced with losing my flock? I ask, because on one of the stickies or Info threads here on the site, I remember reading before I ever got chickens, to medicate only when absolutely necessary. I'm pretty obsessive with my dog as well, when it comes to chemicals and meds. Do absolutely nothing unless necessary. So I just want to be sure before medicating....

 

[Jeffross1968]

So, has anyone allowed CRD to just run it's course? What threat do I face if I do so...

 

[dawg53]

Quote:
There are two choices when your chickens have a CRD...treat or cull, they will never get rid of CRD. They will remain carriers for life, If you introduce new birds, they will become infected. You cant sell nor give away infected birds nor their eggs. CRD's are transmittable on clothing and shoes. If you decide to treat and not cull, you must maintain a closed flock...none in, none out, no exceptions. There is no telling which disease they have, you'd have to take a bird to a vet or vet med school to do bloodwork or necrosy. You can contact your county extension agent or state agriculture dept for more info on how to go about this. Even knowing which disease it is, there are no cures. Antibiotics can treat the symptoms, but wont cure. There's a list of respiratory diseases in in the link I provided in my last post in this thread.

 

[Jeffross1968]

Quote:
There are two choices when your chickens have a CRD...treat or cull, they will never get rid of CRD. They will remain carriers for life, If you introduce new birds, they will become infected. You cant sell nor give away infected birds nor their eggs. CRD's are transmittable on clothing and shoes. If you decide to treat and not cull, you must maintain a closed flock...none in, none out, no exceptions. There is no telling which disease they have, you'd have to take a bird to a vet or vet med school to do bloodwork or necrosy. You can contact your county extension agent or state agriculture dept for more info on how to go about this. Even knowing which disease it is, there are no cures. Antibiotics can treat the symptoms, but wont cure. There's a list of respiratory diseases in in the link I provided in my last post in this thread.

I completely understand closing the flock and never giving away birds. I'm guessing when you say give away eggs, you mean for hatching?

The real question I have is still unanswered...while I understand that it is never cured (if that's what I'm dealing with), does it have to be treated if I'm not seeing any symptoms other than the gurgling? Can this sort of thing work it's way through a flock leaving it intact if not treated? Will current symptoms just continue through their life if untreated, or will then come and go just as if we treated them?

 

[dawg53]

Quote:
There are two choices when your chickens have a CRD...treat or cull, they will never get rid of CRD. They will remain carriers for life, If you introduce new birds, they will become infected. You cant sell nor give away infected birds nor their eggs. CRD's are transmittable on clothing and shoes. If you decide to treat and not cull, you must maintain a closed flock...none in, none out, no exceptions. There is no telling which disease they have, you'd have to take a bird to a vet or vet med school to do bloodwork or necrosy. You can contact your county extension agent or state agriculture dept for more info on how to go about this. Even knowing which disease it is, there are no cures. Antibiotics can treat the symptoms, but wont cure. There's a list of respiratory diseases in in the link I provided in my last post in this thread.

I completely understand closing the flock and never giving away birds. I'm guessing when you say give away eggs, you mean for hatching?

The real question I have is still unanswered...while I understand that it is never cured (if that's what I'm dealing with), does it have to be treated if I'm not seeing any symptoms other than the gurgling? Can this sort of thing work it's way through a flock leaving it intact if not treated? Will current symptoms just continue through their life if untreated, or will then come and go just as if we treated them?

Some diseases are transmitted through eggs, whether they're for hatching or not. Gurgling is a typical symptom of a CRD. Chronic respiratory diseases are contageous, your whole flock could end up with it, some diseases are spread airborne. CRD's will eventually weaken their immune systems to the point of organ failure, respiratory failure leading to eventual death. Additionally, a weakened immune system can open the door to worse diseases.
Type in "gurgling" in the BYC search box and see what you come up with.

 

[Jeffross1968]

Ok, let me be more clear about the egg question...for example, why on earth would I never be allowed to give my sister some of my eggs to eat? I can understand not selling the chickens. I also understand that CRD's can be passed via chicken or egg. But if the egg is going to go into a pan with some butter, salt and pepper....huh? Why would there be worry about CRD unless the people getting my eggs had chickens of their own? Very confused...

Also, a point that might have been overlooked...these 3 (all brown leghorns) only have this gurgling sound for about 4 hours at the hottest part of the day. No sound like this in the coop at night. No sound like this during the mornings when I let them out and they are eating and drinking. Just from about 2pm to 5pm, when it's really hot. Is there any chance we're seeing something other than a CRD, since the symptom is temporary, and there are zero other symptoms, like runny nose, strange poops, or any of the other issues listed at the link you provided?

I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. And I know that a post in the internet can not get me a final answer. I'm just hoping to make the most informed decision possible. I can't even purchase Denagard here, so I'd have to do it online and before I put out that kind of money to feed chemicals to my flock, I want to be as sure as possible.

 

[Priscilla Feathers]

You can't diagnose a chronic respiratory disease over the Internet. If you are worried your chickens may have it, get them to a vet. If they are only gurgling when it's hot, and you aren't seeing any other symptoms whatsoever, then most likely, they don't have it. Chickens pant when it's hot, so they may just be panting.

The heat may also explain why your hens aren't laying. Get them a mister, outdoor evaporative cooler, or set up a fan to blow air over a bucket of ice. Fans, even without ice can help. In a pinch, go outside every hour and spray down everything around them with a hose to help cool it off (won't be very useful, however, if it's humid as well as hot.) Take a look at their coop, or wherever you are keeping them, and see if you can increase air ventilation. On a coop, cut holes in the walls, up near the roof, and cover the holes with chicken wire, that can help ventilation a lot. Get more shade over/around them, preferably living shade (trees have a cooling effect all their own.) And preferably don't use anything to shade the coop that would trap in more heat. Air movement is really critical in the summer.

The sneezing could also simply be from dust. Chickens sneeze when they get dust up their nose, just like we do. Is your coop dusty? Or are you using really fine sawdust, or dusty straw for bedding? A good cleaning to remove dried feces, and a thick layer of clean straw might stop the sneezing.

Quoting from smallstock.com:
http://www.smallstock.info/info/health/poultry-disease.htm

"Birds regulate their body temperature by controlling heat loss through their skin and feather cover, and through evaporation by panting. A mature chicken starts panting when temperatures reach about 29 or 30°C, with chicks being affected at higher temperatures. Panting causes a chicken to exhale large quantities of carbon dioxide and this increases the pH of the blood. This causes physiological changes that result in stress, and chickens may stop eating, lay fewer and smaller eggs (with thinner shells). Young birds may stop growing."