Alternative Protein (animal scraps)?

[DemeterAD9]

I am probably getting ahead of myself as I currently do not have any birds (impatiently waiting for eggs to hatch) but I'm trying to plan ahead for when my future chicks are turning into young adults. I fish and hunt a lot so there is often carcasses and scraps of this and that. Chickens will eat almost anything, even if it isn't good for them so I want to know what is a no-go before I end up finding out for myself. Sounds like the accepted protein ration for laying hens in 16% but do correctly me if I'm wrong. And sorry, this will be a bit of read but I want to cover all my bases.

I intend to offer a proper laying or at least flock raiser feed as the staple diet (there will most likely by many roosters to start with). Oyster shells will be provided once the main flock has been selected or when hens start laying. They will be left to free range for at least 5hrs a day if not longer so they will be eating whatever they find, hopefully all the June bugs because they freak me out when they fly.

Of course they will get all manner of table scraps but what I'm wondering about is meat. Come fall/winter there will be deer scraps (lots of fat, silver skin, blood shot meat etc), come spring/summer there will be fish carcasses. Sometimes I trap coon and I can only eat so much coon before I'm tired of it. Then there's wild turkey, squirrel, rabbit, ground hog... pretty much anything Michigan has to offer in terms of wild game with the acceptation of canines and the weasel family.

Organs are probably a no go, specifically the digestive tract as that is where the worms will be. We eat the hearts but what about liver (deer)? Skin/fur/feathers of course will be discarded too. Is the raw meat okay, like the bones and rib cage of a deer? Should it be frozen for a while or even boiled to kill any other parasites? What about fish scraps or minnows that croaked before I got to use them but are still fresh? I've seen videos of people tossing their fish scraps right into the coop but I worry about tape worms because I know darn well many of the pike, bass, and walleye we catch have tape worms in their gut. Would a preventative treatment in the water be advisable for intestinal worms?

How much protein is too much and what are the signs of too much protein in the birds?

 

[nuthatched]

16% is the bare minimum protein that laying hens can eat and still live while being productive. I personally feed 18%-22%, depending what's in stock. Not sure what the maximum but carcasses are how chicken used to be fed, you're doing even better since yours won't be spoiled or dead from disease as was the norm 100 years ago.

 

[casportpony]

How much protein is too much and what are the signs of too much protein in the birds?

I've read that anything over 30% is too much, and I believe that too much protein can cause gout and/or kidney problems.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hi, welcome to the forum. Glad you joined.

Some tapeworms are species specific, some are not. I don't know about the ones in the fish you catch. You are in Michigan, that is good to know as you have an extension office. You might call your county extension office and chat with them about this. I'd be interested to hear what they say, but not interested enough to call myself.

The general recommendation for feeding chickens is that about 90% of what they eat should be their normal feed. It is a balanced diet with everything they need to live and produce. That means you can give them about 10% as treats, whatever those treats are. I don't know any way to calculate that 10% with any precision but I've heard to give them what they can clean up in 10 to 20 minutes.

I don't do that. When I trap a raccoon, possum, or rat I open them to expose the internals (usually using a shovel) and let them eat on it as they will until close to dark. Then I carry off what is left of the carcass so I don't attract predators. When I butcher them I keep two buckets handy. One is for things like feathers that I'll get rid of. The other is for body tissue for them to eat. This includes their intestines cut into 2" lengths, body fat, and bits and pieces. I don't worry about them having worms. If one has worms they all do already. I do split some of the intestines open to look for roundworms and/or tapeworms. I haven't found any yet.

Since you will free range you have lost control over managing their diet that much anyway. They will decide what they want to eat. Mine do the same. That's why I don't worry about it much and just try to not be ridiculous about how I feed them. They are pretty good about balancing their diet anyway. People have been raising them where they rely on what they find when grazing for thousands of years and they haven't gone extinct yet. A lot of the heritage breeds we keep today have been raised that way for a lot of years.

Personally I never cook any of the meat from those critters. They get table scraps and the meat in those are cooked. They will eat it either way, raw or cooked. And I never treat for a disease or parasite unless I see signs of a disease or parasite. I don't want to contribute to the disease or parasite becoming immune to the drugs used to treat them.

We all do these things differently. Many others have different opinions from mine.

 

[Lazy Farmer]

2 cents:
I know several whom do, I personally do not. The ones who do, only periodically. And when they do, they mince and pulverize to prevent the meal from being dragged around in dirt, in a tug of war between the aggressive ones. Coating the meal with dirt will cause sickness.
I've never had the need to feed meat protein, intentionally anyway. Best regards.

 

[Shadrach]

It's important to understand a little about protein. Lots of foodstuffs can provide crude protein but crude protein isn't really what matters. What does matter is the amino acid profile and there are lots of amino acids but not all the combinations will make a complete protein. The chickens metabolism can combine and convert some amino acids to aid the formation of a complete protein but one amino acid they cant do this with is methionine and this amino acid has to be supplied in the feed. The other critical amino acid is lysine and to supply the correct balance, somewhere around 40%/60% requires some research if one is not feeding a balanced commercial feed.

It is the danger of upsetting this balance that has brought about the often quoted only 10% treats. Given a sufficient variety of forage a chicken can manage this this balance. For mainly contained chickens it's almost impossible.
Meat, fish, many dairy products and eggs will provide all the essential amino and theoretically one can feed these foodstuffs at just about any percentage and the chickens will be healthy.

Some studies (which I cant lay my hands on at the moment) suggest anything more than 24% protein can be harmfull. In the UK and much of Europe high production hens show no signs of ill health or decreased production on 16% crude protein but this is from a balanced commercial feed.

As Ridgerunner points out, with five hours of foraging daily the ideal nutritional balance supplied by commercial feed becomes irrelevant anyway so worrying about what level of protein one feeds is rather pointless.

One also should take into account the type of chicken and the number of eggs it will lay in a year. Low production birds (100 to 150 eggs a year) are likely to fare better with say a forage only diet than birds that lay 300 plus eggs a year.

 

[SourRoses]

I would just be wary of excess fat. It can cause severe health problems in chickens, the hens more so (builds up around the reproductive tract so it causes egg binding).

Also be careful of meat spoilage. You don't want to let the chickens have anything you wouldn't feed your dog. They aren't garbage cans, and they don't have a magical ability to process whatever is deemed inedible. So not human standards for freshness, but definitely not smelling or looking off. If you let them just have at, there's the potential for wayward chunks to be left behind under leaf litter, etc. to be found another day. Perhaps a designated treat area, one with a surface you can easily see is clear, would be safer.
If it were me, I would cut them off an area of lean meat, some healthy organs, to peck at, on a section of concrete, pavers, or similar smooth surface. Then hose it down after the chickens have gone, to remove odors that could attract predators who would be happy with fresh chicken instead.
To avoid most parasites, it would be better to avoid the intestines, stomach and such.
No matter what, never ever feed any brain material. Prion diseases are a deadly threat with no known cure, that can be transmitted to humans.

 

[DemeterAD9]

My take goes a bit like this, just like humans who eat a strictly plant based diet, they will need added minerals and supplements to keep them healthy. Chickens are omnivores by nature, eating plants of all sorts, insects, amphibians, reptiles and small mammals. Commercial feeds make it perfectly possible to raise them w/o the need for natural foraging, so they can be penned up and kept safe. Birds allowed to eat a more natural and less processed diet will need to eat animals of some kind. If I were to incorporate meats to their diet be it from insects, fish or other animals it will essentially provide all of the amino acids and even many of the minerals they need. Too much protein is obviously not good, so using a commercial feed that is good in everything else but lower in protein might be what I should look for. I'll definitely do a bit more researching on diet requirements.

It sounds like there shouldn't be any major issues provided they aren't getting it too often, very much fat, and the scraps are kept clean and fresh. I will not being using the digestive tract in any birds/mammals but fish may just be okay IMO.

One also should take into account the type of chicken and the number of eggs it will lay in a year. Low production birds (100 to 150 eggs a year) are likely to fare better with say a forage only diet than birds that lay 300 plus eggs a year.

The birds I'm hatching out are marans, Easter eggers, and barnyard mix (mutts more than likely). But I'll also be getting another batch or 20ish from Meyer Hatchery later in May that will be 6 black Jersey Giants, 2 light marans, and a mix 10 from their "adopt me bargain" chicks. Depending on how many hens I end up with I plan to keep one or two roos while raising the rest for meat. I don't think any are the high production birds, mostly medium production I believe.