Amberlink over BR sexlink?

[TyRi]

Quick question, can you educate me on when I would see the molting come through from the Speckled Sussex? Is it only in the 2nd generation of breeding? And only if the first gen is bred back to the original SS?

Also, below you explained some about the breeding for blue SS.. I was thinking and was curious about if I were to get a blue boy, breeding him back to a blue rock would that be true splash? Would it throw extra colors since the 1st gen would have some SS in him? Would any breeding he was used in carry the molting gene that could pop up? Or would he need to be bred with another 1st gen(+) with molting gene to start getting molting to show?

Speckled Sussex pattern plus the blue gene, yes that would make the black areas into blue.

But the Blue Rocks might give you a bunch of black chicks, and a bunch of blue chicks, and not many chicks that show any other coloring.

If you only get black and blue chicks from that cross, you can breed a blue one back to Speckled Sussex and get a bunch of chick colors:
--half of chicks black or blue, with or without mottling
--other half of chicks would include some that are patterned like Speckled Sussex (some with blue and some with black), and chicks that have no speckles so they look similar to a Rhode Island Red (some with black in the tails and some with blue), and possibly some that have silver instead of the red/gold colors.

That backcross could give some that look like Speckled Sussex with blue, but you would probably have to hatch a large number of chicks to get very many of them! If you don't get the right kind, take one that shows blue and mottling and breed it to Speckled Sussex again, or one that shows blue and some kind of not-solid patterning and breed it back to Speckled Sussex. Either of those would increase your chance of getting blue/mottled/patterned chicks in that later generation.

 

[NatJ]

Quick question, can you educate me on when I would see the molting come through from the Speckled Sussex? Is it only in the 2nd generation of breeding? And only if the first gen is bred back to the original SS?

The "speckles" on Sussex are caused by the mottling gene, which is recessive. It only shows* when a chicken has two copies of the gene, one inherited from each parent.

So if you breed a Speckled Sussex to a chicken with no mottling gene, every chick will inherit one mottling gene from the Speckled Sussex and one not-mottled gene from the other parent. Those chicks are the F1 generation.

If you breed those F1 birds back to a Speckled Sussex, every new chick inherits a mottling gene from the Speckled Sussex. The F1 bird gives a mottling gene to half of their chicks and a not-mottled gene to the other half of the chicks. So half of chicks have two mottling genes (one from the Speckled Sussex parent and one from the F1 parent), and those chicks will show mottling. The other half of chicks have one mottling gene (from the Speckled Sussex) and one not-mottled gene from the F1 parent, and those chicks do not show mottling. Since they do have one mottling gene, they will be just like the F1 birds in being able to give the mottling gene to half of their own chicks.

If you breed F1 birds to each other, each gives a mottling gene to half of their chicks and a not-mottled gene to the other half of their chicks. The various ways those can combine mean that 1/4 of chicks end up with two mottling genes (they show mottling), half of chicks end up with one mottling gene (they don't show mottling but they do carry it and can give it to their own chicks), and 1/4 of chicks have no mottling genes (do not show mottling, cannot give it to any chicks they produce.)

For producing chicks that show mottling, it does not much matter if you breed back to the original Speckled Sussex, or to a different Speckled Sussex, or to a chicken of another breed that happens to show mottling.

Other breeds and colors that have the mottling gene include any variety called "Mottled" (white dots on black, found in Ancona and Japanese and some other breeds). They also include Jubilee Orpingtons, Spangled Russian Orloffs, Mille Fleur d'Uccles, Porcelain d'Uccles, and some others as well.

*I said mottling only shows when a chicken has two copies of the gene. That is not quite true. A chicken with one copy of the mottling gene will sometimes show a small effect, maybe a few dots here and there. But that does not always happen, and tends to be a small amount when it does happen, so mottling is considered recessive (only making a visible effect when the chicken has two copies of the gene.) If you are trying to sort chicks that have one mottling gene vs. chicks that have no mottling genes, it is very handy if any of them do show a small effect rather than no effect-- but that will probably only let you find some of the chicks that carry mottling, not all of them.

Chicks with mottling may show the effects in their first feathers, or occasionally even in their chick down, but other times it does not show up until they have molted and grown new feathers several times as they are growing. They generally become more white with age, with less and less of the other colors they started out with.

Also, below you explained some about the breeding for blue SS.. I was thinking and was curious about if I were to get a blue boy, breeding him back to a blue rock would that be true splash?

Yes, Two blue genes make splash. It does not matter what breed the blues are.

Would it throw extra colors since the 1st gen would have some SS in him?

Maybe, maybe not. It partly depends on what genes the Blue Rock has. The main gene that makes a chicken be black all over is dominant over most other genes that affect color or pattern in a chicken. So if the Blue Rock has two of that gene, every chick will get one, so they will all look black. Or blue or splash, depending on how many blue genes they inherit, because the blue gene affects all the black on a chicken.

Would any breeding he was used in carry the molting gene that could pop up? Or would he need to be bred with another 1st gen(+) with molting gene to start getting molting to show?

Any breeding that uses the Speckled Sussex will give one mottling gene to each chick, that can pop up in future generations.

If you crossed the Speckled Sussex to the Blue Rock, and kept a son, that cockerel carries one mottling gene. So he can give a mottling gene to half of his chicks. The chicks that do inherit the mottling gene can pass it on to their own chicks. But the half of chicks that do not inherit the mottling gene, cannot give one to their own chicks because they don't have one to give.

 

[TyRi]

For producing chicks that show mottling, it does not much matter if you breed back to the original Speckled Sussex, or to a different Speckled Sussex, or to a chicken of another breed that happens to show mottling.

Other breeds and colors that have the mottling gene include any variety called "Mottled" (white dots on black, found in Ancona and Japanese and some other breeds). They also include Jubilee Orpingtons, Spangled Russian Orloffs, Mille Fleur d'Uccles, Porcelain d'Uccles, and some others as well.

I know you may have touched on it but breeding SS roo to a lemon owlbeard hen.. would that be a double molting gene or is the owlbeard pattern not a molting but an odd lacing/barring?

 

[TyRi]

If you crossed the Speckled Sussex to the Blue Rock, and kept a son, that cockerel carries one mottling gene. So he can give a mottling gene to half of his chicks. The chicks that do inherit the mottling gene can pass it on to their own chicks. But the half of chicks that do not inherit the mottling gene, cannot give one to their own chicks because they don't have one to give.

Also, if a blue roo with a molting gene and a blue hen with a molting gene were bred.. would that just be splash? Would that next generation even be able to really show molting through the splash??

 

[NatJ]

I know you may have touched on it but breeding SS roo to a lemon owlbeard hen.. would that be a double molting gene or is the owlbeard pattern not a molting but an odd lacing/barring?

I had to look up pictures on the internet, but I think Lemon Owlbeard is the same Spangling pattern that is found in Hamburgs and Brabanters and Spitzhaubens.

No, it is not caused by the mottling gene. That kind of spangling is caused by a combination of genes, similar to lacing and penciling. Each of those patterns involves a slightly different set of genes working together to arrange the pigment into a pattern on each feather.

"Spangling" is a confusing term for chicken colors, because it applies to some chickens with the mottling gene (Spangled Russian Orloff, Spangled Cornish) and to some chickens with a very different set of genes (Spangled Hamburgs, Brabanters, Spitzhaubens).

 

[NatJ]

Also, if a blue roo with a molting gene and a blue hen with a molting gene were bred.. would that just be splash? Would that next generation even be able to really show molting through the splash??

If you cross them, you will get about 1/4 of chicks that show mottling.

Meanwhile, each blue parent has one blue gene and one not-blue gene, which come together in various combinations to give some black chicks (no blue gene from either parent), some blue chicks (blue gene from one parent but not from the other parent), and some splash chicks (two blue genes, one from each parent.)

The mottling should show nicely on the black ones and probably on the blue ones, but probably not well on the splash ones.

For black/blue/splash, the ratios are 1/4 black, 1/2 blue, 1/4 splash.
If 1/4 of each color can show mottling, that would give 1/16 chicks that show mottling on black, 1/8 chicks that show mottling on blue, 1/16 that show mottling on splash (or "should" show it but you may not be able to see it.)
The other black, blue, and splash chicks will include some that carry mottling and some that do not.