That pastor sounds pretty un-Christian to me. What a shame he hasn't instead focused on Christ's works - charity and healing.
American Baptists - I need your input/exprieinces please
- Thread starter calicokat
- Start date
I am probably going to regret responding to this but I must say things you hear from "christians" are not always representative of God or Jesus. God actually says to judge yourself here to avoid the judgement after death.
I personally take the things that are said to me that others view as me doing wrong as misguided but genuine care for me to see me not make the mistakes that they made. It does not sound pleasant to me sometimes but I know it usually is originating from a caring heart.
A friend of mine told me one time when I told him that church was full of hypocrites... he told me to join it and there would be one more.
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I personally take the things that are said to me that others view as me doing wrong as misguided but genuine care for me to see me not make the mistakes that they made. It does not sound pleasant to me sometimes but I know it usually is originating from a caring heart.
A friend of mine told me one time when I told him that church was full of hypocrites... he told me to join it and there would be one more.
Quote:
Either you withhold membership from all sinners or you withhold it from none. I'm pretty sure that sin is sin; and in Christianity it is the nature of man to be sinful. Is the man who drinks all day Saturday, confesses on Sunday, and lives fine until the next Saturday the better Christian than the one who "lives in sin"?
I think that churches should be inclusive rather than exclusive. Having the pastor decide which sins are allowable, and which ones get punished, is going to end up alienating people, and hurting the church.
I like Spooks points on marriage as well. It was only in the late Middle Ages that marriage became common for the common person. Even church marriages were viewed as more of a property contract than what we think of as marriage. People moved in together, lived together, had children all without the benefit of a church sanction. Even the early bans against married priests had more to do with inheritance laws (church lands passing out of church hands) than any moral objection to married priests. Back in the 1300 and 1400s, when the Catholic Church was the only Christian game in town, rules for parish priests included not being allowed to baptize their own children, and not being allowed to say mass if they were too drunk to recite the Latin (that was an INTERESTING history class).
I think that churches should be inclusive rather than exclusive. Having the pastor decide which sins are allowable, and which ones get punished, is going to end up alienating people, and hurting the church.
I like Spooks points on marriage as well. It was only in the late Middle Ages that marriage became common for the common person. Even church marriages were viewed as more of a property contract than what we think of as marriage. People moved in together, lived together, had children all without the benefit of a church sanction. Even the early bans against married priests had more to do with inheritance laws (church lands passing out of church hands) than any moral objection to married priests. Back in the 1300 and 1400s, when the Catholic Church was the only Christian game in town, rules for parish priests included not being allowed to baptize their own children, and not being allowed to say mass if they were too drunk to recite the Latin (that was an INTERESTING history class).
The charge to all Christians is to "go and make disciples for Christ". As believers, we must learn to make welcome the non-believers and that includes being tolerant (not accepting, but tolerant and understanding) of lifestyles we don't agree with or understand
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No. Without a doubt he would not. He would council first, and if they changed their behavior to show repentance, then yes. Otherwise, no. Someone can't make a profession of faith, which is what baptism is, unless their life is representative of that faith. Those living in sin are not representing faith at all. It takes faith to be able to walk away from sin.
No. Without a doubt he would not. He would council first, and if they changed their behavior to show repentance, then yes. Otherwise, no. Someone can't make a profession of faith, which is what baptism is, unless their life is representative of that faith. Those living in sin are not representing faith at all. It takes faith to be able to walk away from sin.
- Thread starter
- #96
mom'sfolly :
Either you withhold membership from all sinners or you withhold it from none. I'm pretty sure that sin is sin; and in Christianity it is the nature of man to be sinful. Is the man who drinks all day Saturday, confesses on Sunday, and lives fine until the next Saturday the better Christian than the one who "lives in sin"?
For the record, American Baptists don't "do" confession like Catholics
But you do make a good point, sin is sin. Unfortunately, this one is easy to spot, and like I said before, since we don't fart purple smoke when we lie, that one is hard to spot.
Either you withhold membership from all sinners or you withhold it from none. I'm pretty sure that sin is sin; and in Christianity it is the nature of man to be sinful. Is the man who drinks all day Saturday, confesses on Sunday, and lives fine until the next Saturday the better Christian than the one who "lives in sin"?
For the record, American Baptists don't "do" confession like Catholics
But you do make a good point, sin is sin. Unfortunately, this one is easy to spot, and like I said before, since we don't fart purple smoke when we lie, that one is hard to spot.
Yard full o' rocks :
The charge to all Christians is to "go and make disciples for Christ". As believers, we must learn to make welcome the non-believers and that includes being tolerant (not accepting, but tolerant and understanding) of lifestyles we don't agree with or understand
True. But we are talking church governing, not necessarily judging. You don't have to be a church member to be a Christian. You don't even have to attend church technically, but the church, considered to be the bride of Christ, should be representative of Christ and not of the world.
The charge to all Christians is to "go and make disciples for Christ". As believers, we must learn to make welcome the non-believers and that includes being tolerant (not accepting, but tolerant and understanding) of lifestyles we don't agree with or understand
True. But we are talking church governing, not necessarily judging. You don't have to be a church member to be a Christian. You don't even have to attend church technically, but the church, considered to be the bride of Christ, should be representative of Christ and not of the world.
- Thread starter
- #98
Quote:
No. Without a doubt he would not. He would council first, and if they changed their behavior to show repentance, then yes. Otherwise, no. Someone can't make a profession of faith, which is what baptism is, unless their life is representative of that faith. Those living in sin are not representing faith at all. It takes faith to be able to walk away from sin.
That makes sense. And I think I would almost prefer this approach, to the "compromise" being proposed by our Pastor.
No. Without a doubt he would not. He would council first, and if they changed their behavior to show repentance, then yes. Otherwise, no. Someone can't make a profession of faith, which is what baptism is, unless their life is representative of that faith. Those living in sin are not representing faith at all. It takes faith to be able to walk away from sin.
That makes sense. And I think I would almost prefer this approach, to the "compromise" being proposed by our Pastor.
I may regret this.... but the one thing I've missed hearing in alot of the posts is anything about being saved... You can be a member of a church and be baptized but what about being saved?? I guess my thing would be If things were done in this order.. Saved, baptized, then joining the church.. This problem wouldn't even be an issue, If your saved your goin to be convicted or your wrong doings and change them... then your goin to "however your church does this" be baptized and then join the church if you desire... sorry really doesn't answer any of the questions, and not trying to debate religion so no one take offense to this I'm just saying?
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well i just thought that was automatically assumed
In order to be baptised in our church you have to be saved FIRST. Salvation and acceptance of Christ is an automatic precursor to baptism
well i just thought that was automatically assumed
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