Ammonia in deep litter

[Quailophile]

Hello,
I'm new here, and new to backyard poultry. Thanks for adding me.
HELP!
I'm having a problem in my quail pen with ammonia fumes. I have 7 Coturnix quail in a pen that is 60" x 40" x 24". One side is enclosed as a little coop. The floor in there is wood, and above ground level. It stays nice and dry. The open part of the pen is covered with 1/2" hardware cloth. It's on well draining ground. When I was setting this up last August, I dug out 1 foot deep under the pen, and filled it with coarse sand. Every day, I would scoop out the poop, and it worked great. The birds were happy, everyone was healthy, no smell. Then the winter rains came and the sand got wet from rain blowing in thru the front (It's covered on top and one side with a tarp) I started getting ammonia smell. I ended up digging out all the sand, which was not draining well and was very damp and stinky. I removed it (all 400#) and added woodchips, wood shavings, leaves, and some garden dirt, trying to do deep litter. I redid the tarp to keep things drier, but I can't keep it 100% dry without sealing up the whole thing. We get wild storms, and rain will blow in thru the front, or drip down the back. I'm smelling ammonia again. I did out the damp stuff and remove it, add fresh. I add lime and charcoal. I add dirt and more shavings. I turn everything twice a week. But I'm still having a problem with ammonia. I tried sweet PDZ, and it did nothing. I can tell the smell is coming from the damp spots, not the whole pen. I'm almost ready to give up and put the birds on wire, which I hate the thought of. I've already got one hen down with bumblefoot. I hate this. I love my birds, and I'm trying to do what's best for them. There are only 7 in there, in 17 sq. ft. The hens are laying and they seem OK (except for the bumblefoot girl) but I know this is not good. HELP!

 

[rosemarythyme]

I don't know quail poop output compared to chickens, nor what the recommended amount of space is for birds, but you might not have enough volume of litter in that space to absorb the amount of poop going into it. Also how is the underlying drainage in the location? You mentioned the sand drained well but not once it got wet, so not sure if there's a drainage issue or not. If there's drainage problems, you will have odor problems.

Could you possibly build or install some sort of... tent, roof, something over that area to keep rain from easily blowing in through the front? Something better than a sheet of plastic, with some overhang.

 

[Vacman]

Also, my guess is that your deep litter is going anaerobic and needs oxygen. When I notice that with my chickens I resort to throwing a few cupfuls of scratch grain in the coop. That starts them scratching and digging again and gets oxygen into the litter. Smell is gone. There is a product that Tractor Supply sells in 25 lb bags that's meant to reduce or eliminate ammonia. I can't remember the name right now, but scratch grain woks for me.

 

[Quailophile]

I don't know quail poop output compared to chickens, nor what the recommended amount of space is for birds, but you might not have enough volume of litter in that space to absorb the amount of poop going into it. Also how is the underlying drainage in the location? You mentioned the sand drained well but not once it got wet, so not sure if there's a drainage issue or not. If there's drainage problems, you will have odor problems.

Could you possibly build or install some sort of... tent, roof, something over that area to keep rain from easily blowing in through the front? Something better than a sheet of plastic, with some overhang.

Hi,
Quail are poop machines. I have honestly never seen an animal that poops this much. I swear, they their weight every day. Most people keep them in cages on wire, which I think is awful. They usually say 1 sq, ft./bird. My setup, they have over 2 sq. ft./bird.

The reason the sand didn't drain was because I stupidly lined the pit with row cover cloth, and it wasn't permeable. When I removed the damp sand, the ground underneath was dry.

Drainage is otherwise decent, because I'm right on the beach, and it's really just sand back there. The problem with the front is that it borders right on that walkway, which is a fire exit for the apartment downstairs. I can't block it.

The plastic keeps about 95% of the rain out. It only gets damp right along the front, and right along the back, where I think it drips down the wall. The substrate is damp, t's not soaking wet. It's really frustrating.

 

[Quailophile]

Also, my guess is that your deep litter is going anaerobic and needs oxygen. When I notice that with my chickens I resort to throwing a few cupfuls of scratch grain in the coop. That starts them scratching and digging again and gets oxygen into the litter. Smell is gone. There is a product that Tractor Supply sells in 25 lb bags that's meant to reduce or eliminate ammonia. I can't remember the name right now, but scratch grain woks for me.

Quail are too small to really disturb the litter that much. I take a 3 pronged hand rake and really move the litter around at least twice a week. Since the litter is mostly fairly coarse wood chips, it doesn't get compacted. It feels pretty springy. I know the stuff you mean: it's called Sweet PDZ. It didn't work for me. I am using lime and charcoal. I also noticed adding soil helps, but now all my garden soil is wet from the rain. I'm going to have to put a bucket of it where it will stay dry.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Ah too bad you can't put a roofed overhang over the whole area, I think that could've helped fix it.

One other option (not sure if it's "legal" given the fact that the path needs to be clear) would be to diagonally lean something like a greenhouse panel across the front of the run when rain is in forecast. It'd help deflect any windblown rains, but still lets light through, and by not putting it flush against the front of the run you aren't closing off ventilation.

If that's not allowed, then deep litter might not be the best option here, so you may be stuck doing full clean outs more frequently a la deep bedding style litter.

 

[Quailophile]

If that's not allowed, then deep litter might not be the best option here, so you may be stuck doing full clean outs more frequently a la deep bedding style litter.

Ugg. I really want to avoid that.