Any experience with lead poisoning please?

[WannaBeHillBilly]

It is so good to hear that Phoebe is doing so well! But very soon you will have three little Dervishes spookin' around your house, i'm afraid you won't get any sleep at all!

Stink-Bugs!!! - Don't get me started… It is getting cold outside and those pesky beasts like the warmth too, so they all like to come inside. In the mornings the window-screens are covered in stink-bugs, it looks like in one of the 60's horror movies. Luckily, you're right: The ducks love to eat them and fortunately they have no influence on the taste of the eggs,
Another benefit of having ducks here is that the ticks have disappeared! In 2018, before we had our first ducks i had 5-10 ticks crawling all over me after mowing the grass around the house, nowadays - zero! - Ok i also don't have to mow so much grass around the house, because the ducks eat the grass to, and what they don't eat they trample flat.

I have a funny duck story too: One of my barnyard surprise ducks went through a really, really rough molt this year, her wings and her back were partially bald and that poor girl was most of the day standing in a sunny spot, or when the weather was bad in a protected corner close by the house, one leg tucked away, neck retracted between her shoulders just looking pathetic!
Me, feeling so sorry for her started to speak to her in German: »Oh du arme Ente, ist dir so kalt?« (Oh, you poor duck, you feel so cold?) After which she responds with the saddest quack i have ever heart from a duck. I felt so sorry for her that i gave her some extra protein (cat-food), so that her feathers would grow back a little faster. - Next day, repeat…
Fast forward to today, her feathers have grown back and she looks like a normal duck until she spots me outside: She quickly plushes up her feathers, retracts her neck and slowly walks towards me, sounding that sad, heartbreaking quack, looking sad at me, expecting some additional protein. And when i call her »Arme Ente« (Poor duck) she even pulls her head a little deeper between her shoulders and looks even more pathetic, all accompanied wit that sad quack! - I was not far away from bursting out laughing today!
Who knew that ducks are clever enough to become imposters!
I really need to make a video of her, but she is too clever to do that when i'm holding my phone. Don't leave any evidence…

Life mealworms? - I tried that only once and barely survived! I guess they would walk voluntarily into the turkey roaster for life meal-worms. I will definitely start to farm meal-worms in the future, in the not so near future,…

For next spring i plan to build two raised beds, connected with concrete reinforcement mesh to form something like a hoophouse and then plant sweet potatoes into the beds. Ducks love to eat the sweet potato leaves! - And my wife loves baked sweet potatoes! (so do the ducks...)
Or maybe one bed with sweet potatoes and the second one with chick-peas?
As alway, i have too many plans and not enough time.

 

[KCNC06]

"Poor Duck" sounds a lot like my Pipsqueak! Back in the spring Pipsqueak got a little sneeze. She would sneeze several times throughout the day. I decided to try giving her some chamomile and lavender tea to see if it would help. Within a couple days she stopped sneezing, until bedtime. At bedtime she runs into the bathroom and stands at her water bowl doing the fakest sounding sneezes until she sees me pour her tea into the water. If I don't give her bedtime tea, she keeps on fake sneezing.

I caught Bill Bill and Phoebe having bedtime showers tonight. Well, Phoebe having her shower. Bill was mostly standing by wishing she could shower but there wasn't enough room. Because she doesn't like to share her shower.

 

[KCNC06]

At least Phoebe is able to squat and walk well enough to get into the favorite sleeping spot now. This has been Bill and Pipsqueak's sleeping spot since they were a couple weeks old. They sleep under me under the bed. Bill Bill and Pipsqueak actually stay near her so she can almost snuggle to sleep. They used to run away as soon as she got part way under the bed. She doesn't wander around the bedroom nearly as much now that she can sleep near the other girls and discovered the stuffed animals are nice to snuggle with.

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

OMG! Phoebe is doing so well again! She looks like a normal duck under a shower! (Not that i have seen a normal duck under a shower before... ) And Bill Bill isn't looking too happy that her shower is occupied. I hope she got in after Phoebe was done? That is so funny! A duck in the shower…
I guess she will mess up your spoiled house ducks some what, for their own good! Usually ducks are very social animals, for example ducklings will always pile up, even if they are warm, they simply need the body-contact. And my grown up's are snuggling in the duck-house overnight, sharing the nest boxes, sometimes even piling up in there as adults.
How does sleeping with ducks under your bed feels like? - I mean, "Ducky" farted and pooped overnight and the smell was terrible and she did not slept under my bed , but in the far away corner of the bedroom and still...

 

[KCNC06]

Well, I'm a crazy person so when these ducklings were hatching last year I ended up turning our master bathroom into their brooder. We didn't have enough duck house space at the time and my husband was too busy with work to help me build an outside brooder. Anyway, those ducklings got to play in the shower several times a day. Actually, for a few months it was pretty much impossible to shower without ducklings barging in. Some of them liked to play in the water, others would sit on their little fluffy butts with their feet out in front of them, heads tilted back looking up into the shower...like they really needed to just relax after a hard day of being adorable. Those ducks love when we turn the hose sprayer on "shower" and spray them with it. When I was setting up our irrigation system this year I put up a few extra sprinklers that spray into the fowl yard so the ducks could have showers to play in.

Having Phoebe in the house has definitely been an adjustment for the two spoiled brats. I had to clean the shower before Bill could take her bedtime shower the other night. Which isn't that unusual. If she goes to take her bedtime shower and the pan or bowl in the shower aren't perfectly clean, she'll fuss at me until I dump the water and refill them for her.

As for ducks sleeping under the bed, I think I got used to it very quickly. Bill would fuss so much at night when she was little because she was alone so it was just easier to have her sleep right next to me so I could reach down to let her know she wasn't alone. I

 

[Kimmyh51]

I introduced Phoebe to my other house ducks yesterday. My house ducks HATE ducks. Our ducks don't care for the house ducks either. Not the point though. Phoebe has been hanging out with them today. She's been "walking" around our bedroom all afternoon! Not perfect walking, more like a mix of crawling, low walking and wing walking, but still - she's getting around on her own!! AND she got her beak tucked under her wing!!! I'm so happy for her!!
Did I mention that I've been trying the vitamin c chelation idea? I found an article about a study testing vitamin c against one if the normal chelation medications, it sounded like it had really good results in their test rabbits. I don't give it every day and give extra calcium a few hours after vitamin c. Maybe that's part of the reason she's doing so well? Who knows. I'm just happy that she's recovering. View attachment 2377867

That’s interesting that vitamin C has some use in chelation of lead. The other thing I have read about is coriander (known as cilantro in some countries) but I suspect you have to give a lot so probably have to crop feed it to a sick duck.

I had a second duck who came down with the same symptoms who I took to the vet. She ended up having a roofing nail in her stomach and the vet. Tried to remove it but the damage had already been done and her stomach tissue was too damaged. She died during surgery but would have had to have been euthanised anyway . But what I learnt from that experience is that if you suspect lead poisoning, you need to get them to a vet for calciumEDTA treatment. For my duck it was twice daily injections into her chest muscle. As my vet was over an hour away he was able to give me the injectable to do myself at home. I actually tried several vets before taking her to the one I did as my regular vet did not have any cEDTA at their practise.

I was also told at first by the place I did take her to that they didn’t like to give it without a confirmed blood test to verify lead toxicity. When I asked how long the results would take for the blood test they said 7-10 days.
I said, you realise if it is lead poisoning she is likely to be dead by then? They agreed. Their bird guy wasn’t in that day and so I said look I am only prepared to bring her in if I can speak to the vet she will se and get their confirmation that if, on examination, they also feel her symptoms are likely to be lead poisoning, they will prescribe cEDTA for her on the spot as there is no point in me bringing her all that way if no one will prescribe the chelation therapy for 7-10 days as she’s not going to live that long.

I’d actually come home from work and found the duck the night before walking with a limp and caught her thinking it was a leg problem, then took her indoors and realised how pale her mucus membranes were and that she was more semi paralysed than lame, and started thinking it might not be a leg thing. The next morning by the time the vets were open to call she was unable to even stand, she was indoors overnight on a heat pad with activated charcoal, etc and went downhill dramatically.

Anyway I had described these symptoms to them, so eventually at my insistence they got the vet on the phone, and she agreed that it sounded like lead poisoning and agreed that she would prescribe me a days worth of therapy if examination of the duck also looked like lead. And that I would have to come back the next day to see the bird vet who would prescribe additional cEDTA. so I ended up leaving her there while I went to work and they did her morning and evening shots, then I took her back first thing the next day and the bird vet x rayed her and said there was a nail in there but she was not well enPugh to withstand surgery so my options were to euthanise or try her on chelation therapy for 5 days then see if she was well enough to operate. She improved on the injections but was still pretty sick. I wanted to save her if possible so the vet operated the following Tuesday but it was not possible.

Anyway what I did learn is that often they don’t poo out lead, their body treats it like stones and it stays in the gizzard being ground up to help grind up their food, but of course it releases lead into their system all the while.
He said she had probably had the nail in there at least a month before she got sick...

So if u suspect lead poisoning look out for:
Lameness, incoordination and unable to walk. Look at their tongue and round their eyes the skin will be very pale almost whitish, the tongue might also show a yellow greenish tinge down each side on the outside.
And call vets and make sure they have calcium edta ON HAND if it’s like here, many if not most vets won’t have it. And it needs to be calciumEDTA also known as edetate calcium disodium (not trisodium) and if they won’t prescribe it without a confirmatory blood test make sure they can do that test on site and won’t be sending it away somewhere that it’s going to take days to get back.
The bird needs the edta immediately, not in a week or more....

 

[KCNC06]

That’s interesting that vitamin C has some use in chelation of lead. The other thing I have read about is coriander (known as cilantro in some countries) but I suspect you have to give a lot so probably have to crop feed it to a sick duck.

I had a second duck who came down with the same symptoms who I took to the vet. She ended up having a roofing nail in her stomach and the vet. Tried to remove it but the damage had already been done and her stomach tissue was too damaged. She died during surgery but would have had to have been euthanised anyway . But what I learnt from that experience is that if you suspect lead poisoning, you need to get them to a vet for calciumEDTA treatment. For my duck it was twice daily injections into her chest muscle. As my vet was over an hour away he was able to give me the injectable to do myself at home. I actually tried several vets before taking her to the one I did as my regular vet did not have any cEDTA at their practise.

I was also told at first by the place I did take her to that they didn’t like to give it without a confirmed blood test to verify lead toxicity. When I asked how long the results would take for the blood test they said 7-10 days.
I said, you realise if it is lead poisoning she is likely to be dead by then? They agreed. Their bird guy wasn’t in that day and so I said look I am only prepared to bring her in if I can speak to the vet she will se and get their confirmation that if, on examination, they also feel her symptoms are likely to be lead poisoning, they will prescribe cEDTA for her on the spot as there is no point in me bringing her all that way if no one will prescribe the chelation therapy for 7-10 days as she’s not going to live that long.

I’d actually come home from work and found the duck the night before walking with a limp and caught her thinking it was a leg problem, then took her indoors and realised how pale her mucus membranes were and that she was more semi paralysed than lame, and started thinking it might not be a leg thing. The next morning by the time the vets were open to call she was unable to even stand, she was indoors overnight on a heat pad with activated charcoal, etc and went downhill dramatically.

Anyway I had described these symptoms to them, so eventually at my insistence they got the vet on the phone, and she agreed that it sounded like lead poisoning and agreed that she would prescribe me a days worth of therapy if examination of the duck also looked like lead. And that I would have to come back the next day to see the bird vet who would prescribe additional cEDTA. so I ended up leaving her there while I went to work and they did her morning and evening shots, then I took her back first thing the next day and the bird vet x rayed her and said there was a nail in there but she was not well enPugh to withstand surgery so my options were to euthanise or try her on chelation therapy for 5 days then see if she was well enough to operate. She improved on the injections but was still pretty sick. I wanted to save her if possible so the vet operated the following Tuesday but it was not possible.

Anyway what I did learn is that often they don’t poo out lead, their body treats it like stones and it stays in the gizzard being ground up to help grind up their food, but of course it releases lead into their system all the while.
He said she had probably had the nail in there at least a month before she got sick...

So if u suspect lead poisoning look out for:
Lameness, incoordination and unable to walk. Look at their tongue and round their eyes the skin will be very pale almost whitish, the tongue might also show a yellow greenish tinge down each side on the outside.
And call vets and make sure they have calcium edta ON HAND if it’s like here, many if not most vets won’t have it. And it needs to be calciumEDTA also known as edetate calcium disodium (not trisodium) and if they won’t prescribe it without a confirmatory blood test make sure they can do that test on site and won’t be sending it away somewhere that it’s going to take days to get back.
The bird needs the edta immediately, not in a week or more....

Yikes! That sounds like quite the ordeal with your ducks. I'm so sorry for your loss! I know we got very lucky with Phoebe. Especially since she pooped the lead pellets out. She also pooped out a LOT of little gravely bits. The Epsom salt or molasses was apparently quite effective as a laxative for her. I ended up doing quite a bit of reading about the different chelation methods/medications and vitamin C sounds like it's a really good option. I read studies that showed DMSA is better than CalciumEDTA for chelation, and then other studies showing that vitamin C is better than DMSA. Either way, none of the vets around us treat ducks and specialty vets get very expensive very fast. A friend recently had her ducks treated for zinc poisoning and her vet bill was nearly $5,000. There's no way that was going to be an option for us.
Luckily everything worked out well for Phoebe. After three weeks of getting vitamin C three days/week and her physical therapy routine, I'd say she's made nearly a full recovery.

 

[KCNC06]

Hmm...I just noticed that most of the last paragraph of my previous post got deleted before it posted. Darn touchpad mouse!

About ducks sleeping under me under the bed - the worst part about it is that they get up and walk around during the night. And they're not quiet about it. They get up and go in the bathroom to eat, drink or soak in their bowl in the shower during the night and always wake me up. We have a cat with mental issues who stays in the bedroom so her litterbox is in here too. She's been in here for several years. Once you get used to cat box in the bedroom, ducks are the next logical step.

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

That’s interesting that vitamin C has some use in chelation of lead. The other thing I have read about is coriander (known as cilantro in some countries) but I suspect you have to give a lot so probably have to crop feed it to a sick duck.

I had a second duck who came down with the same symptoms who I took to the vet. She ended up having a roofing nail in her stomach and the vet. Tried to remove it but the damage had already been done and her stomach tissue was too damaged. She died during surgery but would have had to have been euthanised anyway . But what I learnt from that experience is that if you suspect lead poisoning, you need to get them to a vet for calciumEDTA treatment. For my duck it was twice daily injections into her chest muscle. As my vet was over an hour away he was able to give me the injectable to do myself at home. I actually tried several vets before taking her to the one I did as my regular vet did not have any cEDTA at their practise.

I was also told at first by the place I did take her to that they didn’t like to give it without a confirmed blood test to verify lead toxicity. When I asked how long the results would take for the blood test they said 7-10 days.
I said, you realise if it is lead poisoning she is likely to be dead by then? They agreed. Their bird guy wasn’t in that day and so I said look I am only prepared to bring her in if I can speak to the vet she will se and get their confirmation that if, on examination, they also feel her symptoms are likely to be lead poisoning, they will prescribe cEDTA for her on the spot as there is no point in me bringing her all that way if no one will prescribe the chelation therapy for 7-10 days as she’s not going to live that long.

I’d actually come home from work and found the duck the night before walking with a limp and caught her thinking it was a leg problem, then took her indoors and realised how pale her mucus membranes were and that she was more semi paralysed than lame, and started thinking it might not be a leg thing. The next morning by the time the vets were open to call she was unable to even stand, she was indoors overnight on a heat pad with activated charcoal, etc and went downhill dramatically.

Anyway I had described these symptoms to them, so eventually at my insistence they got the vet on the phone, and she agreed that it sounded like lead poisoning and agreed that she would prescribe me a days worth of therapy if examination of the duck also looked like lead. And that I would have to come back the next day to see the bird vet who would prescribe additional cEDTA. so I ended up leaving her there while I went to work and they did her morning and evening shots, then I took her back first thing the next day and the bird vet x rayed her and said there was a nail in there but she was not well enPugh to withstand surgery so my options were to euthanise or try her on chelation therapy for 5 days then see if she was well enough to operate. She improved on the injections but was still pretty sick. I wanted to save her if possible so the vet operated the following Tuesday but it was not possible.

Anyway what I did learn is that often they don’t poo out lead, their body treats it like stones and it stays in the gizzard being ground up to help grind up their food, but of course it releases lead into their system all the while.
He said she had probably had the nail in there at least a month before she got sick...

So if u suspect lead poisoning look out for:
Lameness, incoordination and unable to walk. Look at their tongue and round their eyes the skin will be very pale almost whitish, the tongue might also show a yellow greenish tinge down each side on the outside.
And call vets and make sure they have calcium edta ON HAND if it’s like here, many if not most vets won’t have it. And it needs to be calciumEDTA also known as edetate calcium disodium (not trisodium) and if they won’t prescribe it without a confirmatory blood test make sure they can do that test on site and won’t be sending it away somewhere that it’s going to take days to get back.
The bird needs the edta immediately, not in a week or more....

Roofing nails? Nails in general! I am almost paranoid about those! Whenever i do something outside that involves nails or pointy, sharp wood-screws i am nervous about my ducks maybe stealing one, or picking up the one that just dropped out of my hand…
Those are the things that kill birds very quickly.
Very sorry to hear about your duck! - At least she is no longer suffering from pain.

I am still very hesitant about chelate therapy, i have seen people suffering from that, the medicine is almost as bad as the sickness…
If you want to stock up on CalciumEDTA, look at bulksupplements.com, they are selling the stuff 100grams for $13. I buy most all of such stuff for the ducks (and for me!) from there.

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

Hmm...I just noticed that most of the last paragraph of my previous post got deleted before it posted. Darn touchpad mouse!

About ducks sleeping under me under the bed - the worst part about it is that they get up and walk around during the night. And they're not quiet about it. They get up and go in the bathroom to eat, drink or soak in their bowl in the shower during the night and always wake me up. We have a cat with mental issues who stays in the bedroom so her litterbox is in here too. She's been in here for several years. Once you get used to cat box in the bedroom, ducks are the next logical step.

I know, ducks are getting up multiple times during the night to eat and drink. That's the reason why my ducks have food and water available 24x7, if they run out of water overnight, they are so mad at me in the morning!

By the way, here is a video of »poor duck«, she is a bit suspicious about the camera, i mean who wants their scam-scheme to be exposed on social media, but you can hear her pathetic quack and later in the video she ruffles up her feathers…