Any Experience with Pilgrim cross breeds?

[iambebabeba]

Hi. I was wondering if anyone has pilgrim geese crossed to embden or toulouse . Did the offspring show the same auto sex coloring? Did some? If I breed the crosses back to pure pilgrim will the 75% offspring be auto sexed? I have 1 pilgrim goose but only embden / toulouse ganders. I’m hoping for some auto sex goslings . If anyone has had this mix please share your experience and as many pictures as you can please right now I have 2 gosling that have hatched that are dark grey. I won’t know if they are female until they mature so it will be a while.

 

[NatJ]

I have not done it, but I have read about the genes involved.
The dilution gene is on the Z sex chromosome.

A goose has ZW, so a Pilgrim goose has one copy of the dilution gene, and she passes that only to her sons.

A gander has ZZ, so a Pilgrim gander has two copies of the dilution gene (which makes him look lighter), and he passes one copy of it to each gosling he sires (no matter what their gender.)

If a gander has a Pilgrim mother but a Toulouse father, he should have one copy of the dilution gene and one copy not, so he will be colored like a female Pilgrim (diluted, but not as much as a gander should be.)

If a goose has a Pilgrim mother and a Toulouse father, she gets her Z chromosome from her father (no dilution), so she should be colored like a Toulouse.

So goslings with Pilgrim mother and Toulouse father should be sex-linked: dark daughters, light sons. If you cross a son to his mother, you should be able to produce some proper Pilgrim-colored males, along with single-dilute males, Pilgrim-color females, and Toulouse-color females.

The white in Embden is caused by having dilution and spotting both on the Z chromosomes. So the Embden gander would sire white goslings of both genders.

If you want to eventually have more autosexing geese, I would work with the Pilgrim and the Toulouse, but not the Embden.

 

[iambebabeba]

I have not done it, but I have read about the genes involved.
The dilution gene is on the Z sex chromosome.

A goose has ZW, so a Pilgrim goose has one copy of the dilution gene, and she passes that only to her sons.

A gander has ZZ, so a Pilgrim gander has two copies of the dilution gene (which makes him look lighter), and he passes one copy of it to each gosling he sires (no matter what their gender.)

If a gander has a Pilgrim mother but a Toulouse father, he should have one copy of the dilution gene and one copy not, so he will be colored like a female Pilgrim (diluted, but not as much as a gander should be.)

If a goose has a Pilgrim mother and a Toulouse father, she gets her Z chromosome from her father (no dilution), so she should be colored like a Toulouse.

So goslings with Pilgrim mother and Toulouse father should be sex-linked: dark daughters, light sons. If you cross a son to his mother, you should be able to produce some proper Pilgrim-colored males, along with single-dilute males, Pilgrim-color females, and Toulouse-color females.

The white in Embden is caused by having dilution and spotting both on the Z chromosomes. So the Embden gander would sire white goslings of both genders.

If you want to eventually have more autosexing geese, I would work with the Pilgrim and the Toulouse, but not the Embden.

Oh my goodness that is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much

 

[NatJ]

Oh my goodness that is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much

If you want more goose genetics, I think I learned it from here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/our-guide-to-colour-and-pattern-genetics-in-geese.561779/

 

[Guy4God]

I have not done it, but I have read about the genes involved.
The dilution gene is on the Z sex chromosome.

A goose has ZW, so a Pilgrim goose has one copy of the dilution gene, and she passes that only to her sons.

A gander has ZZ, so a Pilgrim gander has two copies of the dilution gene (which makes him look lighter), and he passes one copy of it to each gosling he sires (no matter what their gender.)

If a gander has a Pilgrim mother but a Toulouse father, he should have one copy of the dilution gene and one copy not, so he will be colored like a female Pilgrim (diluted, but not as much as a gander should be.)

If a goose has a Pilgrim mother and a Toulouse father, she gets her Z chromosome from her father (no dilution), so she should be colored like a Toulouse.

So goslings with Pilgrim mother and Toulouse father should be sex-linked: dark daughters, light sons. If you cross a son to his mother, you should be able to produce some proper Pilgrim-colored males, along with single-dilute males, Pilgrim-color females, and Toulouse-color females.

The white in Embden is caused by having dilution and spotting both on the Z chromosomes. So the Embden gander would sire white goslings of both genders.

If you want to eventually have more autosexing geese, I would work with the Pilgrim and the Toulouse, but not the Embden.

Ok I have a pilgrim male and a Toulouse female.....will I get sex link goslings?

 

[NatJ]

Ok I have a pilgrim male and a Toulouse female.....will I get sex link goslings?

No, that cross will not produce sexlink goslings.

Every gosling should inherit one dilution gene from the Pilgrim father and no dilution genes from the Toulouse female. Since every gosling will have just one dilution gene, they should all be colored like Pilgrim females, with no way to tell males from females by color.

But if you then cross the Pilgrim male with his own daughters, their goslings should have the same autosexing traits as pure Pilgrim geese.

 

[Duckasana]

How about a pilgrim male with embden female?

I hatched 3 so far and 1 gosling this year.
2 white males all grown up now with typical yellow down as goslings. Can whites be female by any chance or they're autosex to be male once they don't have dark Saddleback?

The one male that threw us off was dark Saddleback back as gosling and then typical pilgrim coloration as an adult.

I hatched another this year and just want to know if yellow goslings can potentially be female as a dark Saddleback became a male.

Going to get a DNA test soon regardless.

 

[NatJ]

How about a pilgrim male with embden female?

I hatched 3 so far and 1 gosling this year.
2 white males all grown up now with typical yellow down as goslings. Can whites be female by any chance or they're autosex to be male once they don't have dark Saddleback?

The one male that threw us off was dark Saddleback back as gosling and then typical pilgrim coloration as an adult.

That's interesting. It's not quite what I would have expected, but I suppose that's not really surprising since I have no personal experience, just what I've read on the internet.

I hatched another this year and just want to know if yellow goslings can potentially be female as a dark Saddleback became a male.

Going to get a DNA test soon regardless.

I do not think any yellow goslings should be female, but I agree a DNA test is a good idea.

I think even Emben (white) female goslings are gray at hatch, and of course Pilgrims goslings are gray, so I don't see any way to get a yellow female from any possible combination of them.

After you get the DNA test, please do update this thread with the answer, because I'm definitely curious about it.

 

[Duckasana]

That's interesting. It's not quite what I would have expected, but I suppose that's not really surprising since I have no personal experience, just what I've read on the internet.


I do not think any yellow goslings should be female, but I agree a DNA test is a good idea.

I think even Emben (white) female goslings are gray at hatch, and of course Pilgrims goslings are gray, so I don't see any way to get a yellow female from any possible combination of them.

After you get the DNA test, please do update this thread with the answer, because I'm definitely curious about it.

Results are out.. the yellow gosling with male characteristics turned out to be a FEMALE. Here she is with her pilgrim sister that is autosexed. Did not need DNA test for her.

Ok I'm completely confused. A yellow gosling with no female characteristics and is 20-25% larger than the other gosling(1 day difference).

Hybrids really throw you off!

DNA test is important.

 

[NatJ]

Results are out.. the yellow gosling with male characteristics turned out to be a FEMALE. Here she is with her pilgrim sister that is autosexed. Did not need DNA test for her.

If that "female" came from the same parents, I wouldn't trust her sex either, considering the variety of colors & sexes you have already gotten in your mixed goslings.

If that gosling is a pure Pilgrim, but has the same father as the confusing ones, I would also check the sex rather than trusting the color to work right. The Pilgrim male is not producing the colors of goslings that a pure Pilgrim male should produce in crosses, so he might not produce the correct colors with a Pilgrim female either.