Any Experience with Pilgrim cross breeds?

[iambebabeba]

Hi. I was wondering if anyone has pilgrim geese crossed to embden or toulouse . Did the offspring show the same auto sex coloring? Did some? If I breed the crosses back to pure pilgrim will the 75% offspring be auto sexed? I have 1 pilgrim goose but only embden / toulouse ganders. I’m hoping for some auto sex goslings . If anyone has had this mix please share your experience and as many pictures as you can please right now I have 2 gosling that have hatched that are dark grey. I won’t know if they are female until they mature so it will be a while.

 

[NatJ]

I have not done it, but I have read about the genes involved.
The dilution gene is on the Z sex chromosome.

A goose has ZW, so a Pilgrim goose has one copy of the dilution gene, and she passes that only to her sons.

A gander has ZZ, so a Pilgrim gander has two copies of the dilution gene (which makes him look lighter), and he passes one copy of it to each gosling he sires (no matter what their gender.)

If a gander has a Pilgrim mother but a Toulouse father, he should have one copy of the dilution gene and one copy not, so he will be colored like a female Pilgrim (diluted, but not as much as a gander should be.)

If a goose has a Pilgrim mother and a Toulouse father, she gets her Z chromosome from her father (no dilution), so she should be colored like a Toulouse.

So goslings with Pilgrim mother and Toulouse father should be sex-linked: dark daughters, light sons. If you cross a son to his mother, you should be able to produce some proper Pilgrim-colored males, along with single-dilute males, Pilgrim-color females, and Toulouse-color females.

The white in Embden is caused by having dilution and spotting both on the Z chromosomes. So the Embden gander would sire white goslings of both genders.

If you want to eventually have more autosexing geese, I would work with the Pilgrim and the Toulouse, but not the Embden.

 

[iambebabeba]

I have not done it, but I have read about the genes involved.
The dilution gene is on the Z sex chromosome.

A goose has ZW, so a Pilgrim goose has one copy of the dilution gene, and she passes that only to her sons.

A gander has ZZ, so a Pilgrim gander has two copies of the dilution gene (which makes him look lighter), and he passes one copy of it to each gosling he sires (no matter what their gender.)

If a gander has a Pilgrim mother but a Toulouse father, he should have one copy of the dilution gene and one copy not, so he will be colored like a female Pilgrim (diluted, but not as much as a gander should be.)

If a goose has a Pilgrim mother and a Toulouse father, she gets her Z chromosome from her father (no dilution), so she should be colored like a Toulouse.

So goslings with Pilgrim mother and Toulouse father should be sex-linked: dark daughters, light sons. If you cross a son to his mother, you should be able to produce some proper Pilgrim-colored males, along with single-dilute males, Pilgrim-color females, and Toulouse-color females.

The white in Embden is caused by having dilution and spotting both on the Z chromosomes. So the Embden gander would sire white goslings of both genders.

If you want to eventually have more autosexing geese, I would work with the Pilgrim and the Toulouse, but not the Embden.

Oh my goodness that is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much

 

[NatJ]

Oh my goodness that is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much

If you want more goose genetics, I think I learned it from here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/our-guide-to-colour-and-pattern-genetics-in-geese.561779/

 

[Guy4God]

I have not done it, but I have read about the genes involved.
The dilution gene is on the Z sex chromosome.

A goose has ZW, so a Pilgrim goose has one copy of the dilution gene, and she passes that only to her sons.

A gander has ZZ, so a Pilgrim gander has two copies of the dilution gene (which makes him look lighter), and he passes one copy of it to each gosling he sires (no matter what their gender.)

If a gander has a Pilgrim mother but a Toulouse father, he should have one copy of the dilution gene and one copy not, so he will be colored like a female Pilgrim (diluted, but not as much as a gander should be.)

If a goose has a Pilgrim mother and a Toulouse father, she gets her Z chromosome from her father (no dilution), so she should be colored like a Toulouse.

So goslings with Pilgrim mother and Toulouse father should be sex-linked: dark daughters, light sons. If you cross a son to his mother, you should be able to produce some proper Pilgrim-colored males, along with single-dilute males, Pilgrim-color females, and Toulouse-color females.

The white in Embden is caused by having dilution and spotting both on the Z chromosomes. So the Embden gander would sire white goslings of both genders.

If you want to eventually have more autosexing geese, I would work with the Pilgrim and the Toulouse, but not the Embden.

Ok I have a pilgrim male and a Toulouse female.....will I get sex link goslings?

 

[NatJ]

Ok I have a pilgrim male and a Toulouse female.....will I get sex link goslings?

No, that cross will not produce sexlink goslings.

Every gosling should inherit one dilution gene from the Pilgrim father and no dilution genes from the Toulouse female. Since every gosling will have just one dilution gene, they should all be colored like Pilgrim females, with no way to tell males from females by color.

But if you then cross the Pilgrim male with his own daughters, their goslings should have the same autosexing traits as pure Pilgrim geese.