Any gender guesses for BCM and white legbar

[Shellebelle920]

BCM1 - Pullet
BCM2 - Cockerel
BCM3 - Cockerel
Legbar1 - Cockerel

On the BCM's the color of the face is a pretty reliable indicator of sex. The white faces chicks are pullets and the black faces ones are cockerels.

It can get a little tricky though because if you are carrying a Recessive Primary color pattern such as Wheaten [eWh], wild type [e+] or [eb] the chick will be completely black regardless of gender.

I hatched four LP Marans six or seven years ago and they were all cockerels so i didn't learn too much about that specific line but it seamed to be about the same as other blood lines. The chicks didn't get any white feathers in their juvenile wings but that was about the only difference.

Most BMC lines have both the preferred Birchen [E] and the extended black [EE]. that can further confuse things. If you get [EE] extended black in your line you are line you will get hens without copper on their hackles. Breeders will try to correct that by breeding birds with red enhancers in them. It will bring a trace of red to the [EE] birds but then the birds will get red down there brest and other area where it shouldn't be. Your cockerels should have copper ear coverts. If they have black ear coverts then they have the [EE] and have no value as a breeder. If I remember correct (and it has been a long time so I may not), I got two cockerels with the black ear coverts and two with the black coverts from my four LP cockerels. The Cock in my avatar is one of the LP boys. He is next to a Wade Gene girls. His name was red because he got too much red. At 3 days old there was red in his wings. If you watch the wings that is another indication of wether you have an [e] or [EE] based bird. The [EE] is a double dosage of black and the [E] is a single dosage. The [EE] birds will not show any red coloring in their wing for over a week while the [E] birds will show it in a day or two.

Good luck. It looks like you got one more pullet than I did and two fewer cockerels. That doesn't give you a lot to work with but it is a start.

BCM1 - Pullet
BCM2 - Cockerel
BCM3 - Cockerel
Legbar1 - Cockerel

On the BCM's the color of the face is a pretty reliable indicator of sex. The white faces chicks are pullets and the black faces ones are cockerels.

It can get a little tricky though because if you are carrying a Recessive Primary color pattern such as Wheaten [eWh], wild type [e+] or [eb] the chick will be completely black regardless of gender.

I hatched four LP Marans six or seven years ago and they were all cockerels so i didn't learn too much about that specific line but it seamed to be about the same as other blood lines. The chicks didn't get any white feathers in their juvenile wings but that was about the only difference.

Most BMC lines have both the preferred Birchen [E] and the extended black [EE]. that can further confuse things. If you get [EE] extended black in your line you are line you will get hens without copper on their hackles. Breeders will try to correct that by breeding birds with red enhancers in them. It will bring a trace of red to the [EE] birds but then the birds will get red down there brest and other area where it shouldn't be. Your cockerels should have copper ear coverts. If they have black ear coverts then they have the [EE] and have no value as a breeder. If I remember correct (and it has been a long time so I may not), I got two cockerels with the black ear coverts and two with the black coverts from my four LP cockerels. The Cock in my avatar is one of the LP boys. He is next to a Wade Gene girls. His name was red because he got too much red. At 3 days old there was red in his wings. If you watch the wings that is another indication of wether you have an [e] or [EE] based bird. The [EE] is a double dosage of black and the [E] is a single dosage. The [EE] birds will not show any red coloring in their wing for over a week while the [E] birds will show it in a day or two.

Good luck. It looks like you got one more pullet than I did and two fewer cockerels. That doesn't give you a lot to work with but it is a start.

BCM1 - Pullet
BCM2 - Cockerel
BCM3 - Cockerel
Legbar1 - Cockerel

On the BCM's the color of the face is a pretty reliable indicator of sex. The white faces chicks are pullets and the black faces ones are cockerels.

It can get a little tricky though because if you are carrying a Recessive Primary color pattern such as Wheaten [eWh], wild type [e+] or [eb] the chick will be completely black regardless of gender.

I hatched four LP Marans six or seven years ago and they were all cockerels so i didn't learn too much about that specific line but it seamed to be about the same as other blood lines. The chicks didn't get any white feathers in their juvenile wings but that was about the only difference.

Most BMC lines have both the preferred Birchen [E] and the extended black [EE]. that can further confuse things. If you get [EE] extended black in your line you are line you will get hens without copper on their hackles. Breeders will try to correct that by breeding birds with red enhancers in them. It will bring a trace of red to the [EE] birds but then the birds will get red down there brest and other area where it shouldn't be. Your cockerels should have copper ear coverts. If they have black ear coverts then they have the [EE] and have no value as a breeder. If I remember correct (and it has been a long time so I may not), I got two cockerels with the black ear coverts and two with the black coverts from my four LP cockerels. The Cock in my avatar is one of the LP boys. He is next to a Wade Gene girls. His name was red because he got too much red. At 3 days old there was red in his wings. If you watch the wings that is another indication of wether you have an [e] or [EE] based bird. The [EE] is a double dosage of black and the [E] is a single dosage. The [EE] birds will not show any red coloring in their wing for over a week while the [E] birds will show it in a day or two.

Good luck. It looks like you got one more pullet than I did and two fewer cockerels. That doesn't give you a lot to work with but it is a start.

Thank you for such a detailed explanation. So is that cockerel In Your picture birchen based? I think one of my birds is extended black as there is no red at all in his wing feathering, so that would be a cull? My other “maybe cockerel” has an ever so slight wing feather tipped reddish brown on the end. Is that too early to assume it is birchen based? In the future, I would only want to breed a birchen based bird? Is that correct? Thanks again! That is very helpful! I need to research some more about the standard for Marans. Also, btw, my cream legbar pellets are really nice birds. I’m really enjoying them.

 

[GaryDean26]

I may have confused things with the red in the wings. The red in the wings is not desirable. If you have it then it can be used to tell you if you have an extended Black or a Birchen Primary color pattern though. If you have two copied of the Birchen [E]/[E] then that red, which could be from autosomal red or some other red coloring gene, will show through early. If it doesn't then you have either a split [E]/[EE] or a complete [EE]/[EE]. The complete will be almost black as mature birds. I haven't had the cock in my avatar for about 5 years so I am forgetting a lot about him. It seems that he did get black coloring on his saddle feathers and i remember that he got black eyes too. If I remember correctly his eye color lightened up to the standard orange color after about 18 months as did his saddle feathers, but I think up until his 18 month molt that his saddle feathers had black on them. I have photos of his wings stored away somewhere (unless i lost it when out computer crashed 4 years ago). I might be able to find my notes on him but don't remember off the top of my head. I see that at least one of you LP's have white in its wing feathers so the LP line has morphed a lot over the past 7 years. What you have is probably a lot more refined that what i had. i had both white and black under colors, both red and black ear coverts, some with white in their mature wing plumage, some with red in their wings and some with out, and some with a lot of red on their breast and others without very much.

 

[GaryDean26]

Thank you for such a detailed explanation. So is that cockerel In Your picture birchen based? I think one of my birds is extended black as there is no red at all in his wing feathering, so that would be a cull? My other “maybe cockerel” has an ever so slight wing feather tipped reddish brown on the end. Is that too early to assume it is birchen based? In the future, I would only want to breed a birchen based bird? Is that correct? Thanks again! That is very helpful! I need to research some more about the standard for Marans. Also, btw, my cream legbar pellets are really nice birds. I’m really enjoying them.

I wouldn't cull anything if i only had three birds to work with. Culls are the bottom 90% and keepers are the top 10%. I would keep all 3 starting out until they are mature then hatch more from them. I would hatch at least 30 from them and then you can look for the 90% culls and 10% keepers. Your top 10% are always your keepers regardless of how may defects they have. You can work out all the the problems in one generation. You work with what you have while improving one thing at a time.

 

[Shellebelle920]

I wouldn't cull anything if i only had three birds to work with. Culls are the bottom 90% and keepers are the top 10%. I would keep all 3 starting out until they are mature then hatch more from them. I would hatch at least 30 from them and then you can look for the 90% culls and 10% keepers. Your top 10% are always your keepers regardless of how may defects they have. You can work out all the the problems in one generation. You work with what you have while improving one thing at a time.

Thanks again! Just to clarify, you would keep both cockerels if they end up being birchen based? Should I consider ordering more in hopes of getting a few more pullets? I was considering bevs Marans as well but I was trying to keep the French line in hopes of darker eggs.