ANYONE FREE RANGE GREY OR RED JUNGLE FOWL?

[centrarchid]

I am looking for someone with experience with these species that might have seen parental behavior, especially involving rooster.

 

[Ntsees]

I've witnessed that the hen is almost always busy digging around trying to find insects for her chicks for the first few weeks. The digging slows somewhat later on when the chicks are older and are able to dig for themselves. Although the male (1st year male) did stay with the hen and chicks at first, it didn't start feeding the chicks (make clucking sounds that it found something to eat) until a few weeks later when it got used to those puffballs following it's mate (will help hen defend chicks from that point on). Plus, the chicks only came to the hens food call because they recognize it and wouldn't go the males call until they learned that it too meant food was found. I'm sure there are variations, but the parenting doesn't sound too different from regular chickens. fyi: this is just one experience I had.

 

[centrarchid]

I've witnessed that the hen is almost always busy digging around trying to find insects for her chicks for the first few weeks. The digging slows somewhat later on when the chicks are older and are able to dig for themselves. Although the male (1st year male) did stay with the hen and chicks at first, it didn't start feeding the chicks (make clucking sounds that it found something to eat) until a few weeks later when it got used to those puffballs following it's mate (will help hen defend chicks from that point on). Plus, the chicks only came to the hens food call because they recognize it and wouldn't go the males call until they learned that it too meant food was found. I'm sure there are variations, but the parenting doesn't sound too different from regular chickens. fyi: this is just one experience I had
My

What was duration of your observation? Were birds in natural habitat or kept as exotics?

 

[Ntsees]

It was about 4 months. The birds (rjf) were kept as exotics here in the US. I really enjoyed watching their behavior but unfortunately their behaviors are based on instincts only. It would be nice to watch what their true natural behaviors are like (adding in learned behaviors from the wild hen) for comparison but that would only have to be in the wild.

 

[centrarchid]

It was about 4 months. The birds (rjf) were kept as exotics here in the US. I really enjoyed watching their behavior but unfortunately their behaviors are based on instincts only. It would be nice to watch what their true natural behaviors are like (adding in learned behaviors from the wild hen) for comparison but that would only have to be in the wild.

I have made extensive observations of free-ranging American gamefowl and lesser observations on a hatchery product sold as red jungle fowl by Cackle Hatchery. Purity of hatchery line is suspect but enough red jungle fowl in background to produce behaviors and capabilities outside of those exhibited by domesticated breeds I am familiar with. They certainly are not bantams even though that is what they most closely approximate. An interesting difference between my games and the "red jungle fowl" I observed involves paternal investment in offspring. The games exhibit much more than "red jungle fowl". Differences with respect to hawks also noted and biologically significant. The "red jungle fowl" suffered heavy losses but games suffered very little under same conditions. Observations involved all live stages. I am curious, are differences owing to grey jungle fowl influence on domestics, selection associated with domestication been more important, or has the "red jungle fowl" I observed been degraded by hybridization.

I am under the impression these birds are not entirely instinct driven. They can learn and have surprisingly complex ways of interacting with their environment.

 

[Ntsees]

I have made extensive observations of free-ranging American gamefowl and lesser observations on a hatchery product sold as red jungle fowl by Cackle Hatchery. Purity of hatchery line is suspect but enough red jungle fowl in background to produce behaviors and capabilities outside of those exhibited by domesticated breeds I am familiar with. They certainly are not bantams even though that is what they most closely approximate. An interesting difference between my games and the "red jungle fowl" I observed involves paternal investment in offspring. The games exhibit much more than "red jungle fowl". Differences with respect to hawks also noted and biologically significant. The "red jungle fowl" suffered heavy losses but games suffered very little under same conditions. Observations involved all live stages. I am curious, are differences owing to grey jungle fowl influence on domestics, selection associated with domestication been more important, or has the "red jungle fowl" I observed been degraded by hybridization.

I am under the impression these birds are not entirely instinct driven. They can learn and have surprisingly complex ways of interacting with their environment.

Yes, I agree completely with you that birds are not entirely instinct driven and that they can learn from predator attacks and what not. I've witnessed that myself with my quail. I should have pointed out the the rjf that I've observed were once caged birds (they had adequate room but were enclosed) and the only potential predator they considered were people. When I observed them, it was their first spring season outside of an enclosure and they have not yet had experience with hawks, etc. that's why I considered their unique behavior to be instinct-driven. Hmm...darn, I need to clarify something. Now that I've come to think about it, when you say free range, you probably meant free ranging on acres of land. The rjf I observed only free ranged within a fenced backyard (they would never return if they got out) and had access to grass, plants, and insects. Disregard my comments if you were referring to observations with free ranging on more than a backyard. Also, the rjf I've observed are considered Richardsons and were not from Cackle hatchery (although great looking, rjf from cackle hatchery or any other hatchery do not meet my strict standards and are not considered rjf to me).

Interesting, you've sparked my interest in learning more about the American gamefowl when you mentioned that their survivability is greater than the rjf. I've seen them but never owned them before.

And Lepomis gibbosus is my favorite Centrarchid.

 

[centrarchid]

Yes, I agree completely with you that birds are not entirely instinct driven and that they can learn from predator attacks and what not. I've witnessed that myself with my quail. I should have pointed out the the rjf that I've observed were once caged birds (they had adequate room but were enclosed) and the only potential predator they considered were people. When I observed them, it was their first spring season outside of an enclosure and they have not yet had experience with hawks, etc. that's why I considered their unique behavior to be instinct-driven. Hmm...darn, I need to clarify something. Now that I've come to think about it, when you say free range, you probably meant free ranging on acres of land. The rjf I observed only free ranged within a fenced backyard (they would never return if they got out) and had access to grass, plants, and insects. Disregard my comments if you were referring to observations with free ranging on more than a backyard. Also, the rjf I've observed are considered Richardsons and were not from Cackle hatchery (although great looking, rjf from cackle hatchery or any other hatchery do not meet my strict standards and are not considered rjf to me).

Interesting, you've sparked my interest in learning more about the American gamefowl when you mentioned that their survivability is greater than the rjf. I've seen them but never owned them before.

And Lepomis gibbosus is my favorite Centrarchid.

What subspecies of red jungle fowl does the Richardsons repressent? What I suspect is that many people are not recognizing differences between subspecies and thinking birds that are not same as what they expect are thus not true jungle fowl.


I meant free-range without restrictions of any sort. Ranging habits where a function of meeting needs for food, water, cover, and nesting habitat in proximity to suitable roosting site. If I could acquire "pure" red jungle fowl that otherwise are considered to be too flightly to stay about, then I would place them as eggs under a game hen. They would imprint on locality and not fly beyond yender then.


We breed pumpkinseeds now and again. Easier than chickens once you get technique down.

 

[Ntsees]

What subspecies of red jungle fowl does the Richardsons repressent? What I suspect is that many people are not recognizing differences between subspecies and thinking birds that are not same as what they expect are thus not true jungle fowl.


I meant free-range without restrictions of any sort. Ranging habits where a function of meeting needs for food, water, cover, and nesting habitat in proximity to suitable roosting site. If I could acquire "pure" red jungle fowl that otherwise are considered to be too flightly to stay about, then I would place them as eggs under a game hen. They would imprint on locality and not fly beyond yender then.


We breed pumpkinseeds now and again. Easier than chickens once you get technique down.

The Richardsons are the Indian red jungle fowl (Gallus gallus murghi) here in the US. There are misrepresentations of this subspecies just as it is for the word "red jungle fowl". Regarding imprinting, it's worth a try if you can get pure eggs, but I do not think a wild bird would stay once it is capable of living on their own (similar to the new world quails). I'm sure you are already aware of this info but I'll post up the link just in case anyone on BYC is interested in pure rjf: http://cvpws.com/members-corner/member-articles/12

As for spawning sunfishes, my experience is quite the opposite. I've never succeeded with either bluegill or green sunfish. Looks like I may have to give them more than just a cold period and food. Like you say, it's probably technique. I'm going to have to try again in the future.

 

[centrarchid]

Brisbin's findings with chicks I do not think strongly supported. Only four putative wild compared to four zoo stock red jungle fowl is not enough, especially when only one batch trialed. Conclusions on behavior are over simplified. My birds (American games, some of which do exhibit a partial eclipse molt) can exhibit four responses to predator pressure. First is to bolt, scattering in process (like putative wild rjf). Second is run as group for cover. Third is hunker down flat like a baby killdeer and lie motionless. Fourth is to get up under moms skirt where she and possibly dad engage threat (response to Coopers Hawks). Also. Richardson line rjf may not represent the wild rjf they are derived from for multiple reasons in addition to introgression from domestics. Also not all jungle have to have the same anti-predator response. The Asian or lowland forms may be qualitatively different in that regard.

 

[Ntsees]

Quote:
I guess multiple sample sizes and replicates are favorable in the scientific community before something could be considered convincing. In Brisbins case, I think it may have been difficult for him due to the difficulty of the species coupled with that about 5 eggs (give or take) are laid per breeding season (not including re-nesting). But still, I agree with Brisbin's findings because the behaviors he state correlates exactly with the information I've gathered with sources who've had hands on experience with the actual bird the native habitat. In the birds I've observed, there was just this one instance when they encountered their first real threat - a neighborhood cat. When the hen was making the alarm calls, I looked around and none of the chicks (approximately 1/4 grown at that point) were to be seen except for the adult birds. I didn't witness the event from the start and can only assume at that moment the chicks had dispersed away from the hen as what Brisbin had described since the chicks were clearly not under the hen. In regards to your opinion that Richardsons do not represent wild specimens due to possible introgression of domestics, "if" (and I say "if") Richardsons had some domestic genes, a large percentage of their genotype should still be rjf and so they are the closest you'll get to a pure specimen and thereby should retain some of the wild behavioral and learning instincts. Therefore, it could still be worth taking into consideration to see how well near-pure specimens respond to predators in comparison to the American games. I do not know the genetics of American games on how much rjf genes they still have that may contribute to their anti-predator behaviors. It is interesting to learn that American games have predator responses as you've described. And yes, not all may have the same anti-predator probably due to adaptation to difference of predators in regions and possible domestic influence as you were interested in.