Aracauna Eggs with detached air cells

[bobshere]

So I’m looking for some opinion and past experience with hatching detached air cells. I have 8 shipped Aracauna eggs with detached air cells. I have life in 8 eggs and into Day 13. My question is do I lock them down standing on end or do I lay them down as usual? What would be the best chance of a good outcome?
Any experience hatching on end would be greatly appreciated?
Thank you

 

[ChickenCanoe]

If still detached, I would probably stand them up.
Did you start turning from day 1?

 

[bobshere]

I started turning on day 4. It appears only one has reattached and its saddled.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I may be a rogue or outlier but I completely disagree with all the claims about reattaching and not turning the first several days. IMO that is the absolutely wrong approach.

First, the air cell isn't a separate entity that stays in one place. The egg when produced, contains two membranes. One against the shell and the other that surrounds the albumen. The air cell opens up immediately upon being laid due to cooling and contraction of the ingredients. That air cell is between the two membranes. If the air bubble floats around in the egg, that means that the inner membrane has ruptured. No amount of letting the egg sit upright will move the air through that rupture and seal the membrane.

Add to that the importance of turning the first 7-10 days. Beginning turning frequently day 0 is critical for development of extra embryonic membranes that allow the embryo to uptake nutrients.
https://ufdc.ufl.edu/IR00004437/00001

 

[bobshere]

You are entitled to your opinion and your probably correct but we will see on day 22.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Yes, it is my opinion that the science is correct.
https://afs.ca.uky.edu/files/1-composition_of_the_egg.pdf
https://www.pasreform.com/en/knowledge/10/the-biology-behind-egg-turning
https://thepoultrysite.com/articles/the-biology-behind-egg-turning

 

[Buckeye Amy]

"If turning fails during the period of sub-embryonic and blood ring formation, the area vasculosa remains small and the total volume of sub-embryonic fluid is decreased. Consequently, failure to turn the egg has a serious and negative impact on the growth of the embryo. If embryos are not turned during days 4-7, nutrient uptake is affected, which delays hatching time and produces increased variability in chick viability. We may confidently conclude therefore, that turning eggs is as important as climate parameters RH and temperature in incubation, not only for optimising embryo quality, but also in order to achieve a narrow hatch window." Source

This part interests me particularly. In a nutshell, by failing to turn eggs for the first 3 days due to "detached" air cells, one is essentially condemning that egg to fail.

I just set 8 FBCM eggs today that took 4 days to reach me from Alabama. They arrived in pristine condition with no cracks. I went against convention and didn't let them settle for 24 hours before putting them into the incubator. I waited about 7 hours while I did other activities around the house, leaving them air cells up in an egg carton. I thought to myself that if the eggs are scrambled, there's no amount of settling that will correct that. Humpty Dumpty can not put himself back together again.

This is my very first hatch and I have no experience in this whatever. That being said, it seems very illogical to me to let eggs "settle". The individual parts of the eggs themselves are not living beings, and as you stated above, detached air cells can't reseal themselves. If they can, I'd like specific scientific studies showing how it is done.

I am going to record every detail of this hatch and find out if I can agree with letting shipped eggs settle for 24 hours before incubating. I don't see any reason to not agree with the information you shared. But I realize some people can get really emotional when you disagree with what is accepted practice.

I am completely new to hatching eggs, but my gut is telling me that it makes sense to give it a try. They're my eggs, I paid for them, and I'll give it a try,

 

[ChickenCanoe]

"If turning fails during the period of sub-embryonic and blood ring formation, the area vasculosa remains small and the total volume of sub-embryonic fluid is decreased. Consequently, failure to turn the egg has a serious and negative impact on the growth of the embryo. If embryos are not turned during days 4-7, nutrient uptake is affected, which delays hatching time and produces increased variability in chick viability. We may confidently conclude therefore, that turning eggs is as important as climate parameters RH and temperature in incubation, not only for optimising embryo quality, but also in order to achieve a narrow hatch window." Source

This part interests me particularly. In a nutshell, by failing to turn eggs for the first 3 days due to "detached" air cells, one is essentially condemning that egg to fail.

I just set 8 FBCM eggs today that took 4 days to reach me from Alabama. They arrived in pristine condition with no cracks. I went against convention and didn't let them settle for 24 hours before putting them into the incubator. I waited about 7 hours while I did other activities around the house, leaving them air cells up in an egg carton. I thought to myself that if the eggs are scrambled, there's no amount of settling that will correct that. Humpty Dumpty can not put himself back together again.

This is my very first hatch and I have no experience in this whatever. That being said, it seems very illogical to me to let eggs "settle". The individual parts of the eggs themselves are not living beings, and as you stated above, detached air cells can't reseal themselves. If they can, I'd like specific scientific studies showing how it is done.

I am going to record every detail of this hatch and find out if I can agree with letting shipped eggs settle for 24 hours before incubating. I don't see any reason to not agree with the information you shared. But I realize some people can get really emotional when you disagree with what is accepted practice.

I am completely new to hatching eggs, but my gut is telling me that it makes sense to give it a try. They're my eggs, I paid for them, and I'll give it a try,

I concur. Since this is your first time, I hope you have a really good (read that as accurate) thermometer.
Does your incubator have a digital display?
Let me refer you to a discussion about temperature sensors.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/one-incubator-7-thermometers-no-consensus.1408306/
good luck.

 

[Buckeye Amy]

I concur. Since this is your first time, I hope you have a really good (read that as accurate) thermometer.
Does your incubator have a digital display?
Let me refer you to a discussion about temperature sensors.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/one-incubator-7-thermometers-no-consensus.1408306/
good luck.

Not to worry, I calibrated it when I first set it up and everything is as it should be. Temp/Humidity are correct. I have a Harris Farms NR360 and am using a medical grade thermometer. Bator does have a digital display. I read the many great articles on here about incubating well before I got started and I'm feeling confident everything is as it should be.

 

[Araucana Nest]

My opinion is whatever position they are in now, should be the position you leave them in for hatching. Very informative thread.