Araucana thread anyone?
- Thread starter megcpat
- Start date
- Aug 22, 2010
- 742
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- 156
What I meant was females being silver duckwing coulored or silver wheaten. The whole dark red thing with the cubalayas is IMO Mh like with the faverolles. Maybe I can run a test cross to find out.
The hens should be colored silver wild type like the OEG. At this point I too believe that the dark red with the araucana and the cubalaya is Mh. I keep hearing about the recessive wheaten but for now I think the red comes from Mh. Technically you can get a silver roo based on wheaten as long as the color ended up correct but the description for the hens is a wild type bird.
Lanae
Awesome! What colors do you have in your flock? I can't tell you ALL how excited I am to see what I hatch this year but also what everyone else hatches. The numbers of Araucana breeders is growing like Crazy! If I may, I wish that everyone raising Araucana would at least consider joining the Araucana Club
http://www.araucana.net/
There are benefits to joining. You have access to other breeders, some that are not members here. You will be listed as a breeder so as your flocks grow and you need to buy, swap and sell, you will be easily found by others who are looking to expand and improve their own flocks and people new to the breed trying to get started. Your name, farm name, email and web site (if you have one) will be listed. This group, the Facebook group and the Araucana Club forum are "the" best places to find Araucana's. Because they are still relatively rare, using every site we can to keep us all together is the best way to keep this breed moving Forward.
The cost to join is not that much and can be paid by paypal, check etc. We are a fairly small group of breeders and I think we mostly know each other but it would be sooo cool to have everyone that is raising the Araucana to be Members of the Araucana Club of America. Even if you don't visit the forum there often, people can find you and it would be so neat to see how many members we can get to join. I remember the year I joined the Serama Council of North America. There were maybe 200 members. The year I joined, it jumped to 700+ and now it's easily over 1000 members! That, alone, can really BOOST a club and improve the things a club can do for the breed and it's members. As more of us bring our flocks up to the Standard of Perfection, it will mean even more to us to be members so please consider joining
I've posted this elsewhere and copied and pasted it to make it easier, not copied from someone else's post but my own.
Generally, I figure our flocks have different requirements for feed/nutrition depending on many things such as our location, time of year, age of that we are feeding them, sex and so on. I had a friend who had Boer Goats a few years ago and she spent $1500 for a nutritionist of some sort to come to her farm and he did soil testing, forage testing, tests of all sorts on her goats and who know what else, and he developed a specialized feed for only her goats that was basically a recipe that her feed mill mixed for her that was "top secret". Sounded a little over the top to me but this woman was producing work grand champions and selling some of her top goats for as high as $25,000. No kidding!
I am always considering nutrition and figure my chickens needs change with the seasons, where they are with breeding and laying and so forth and something has always been on my mind and it really struck home one day when I was talking to my son Matt and he said something that was one of those Ah Ha! moments. He has a degree in Agriculture and doesn't have a whole lot of interest in poultry but did say something to me that struck a nerve. I had commented that feeding layer feed didn't seem to really make them lay or lay better. His comment was "Mom, that feed is for commercial layers to give them the minimum nutrition they need aimed at laying a lot of hard shelled eggs that won't crack on the way to the store. They don't expect those battery layers to lay for more than a couple of years either so the nutrition is sometimes hard on their livers and they don't live long past the 2 yrs."
Well Hello! That got me to thinking and I've searched online for breeder feed and I really didn't find anything that was specifically made for breeder chickens. Oddly, I did find a few companies that actually make a "breeder" feed for turkeys and pheasants. I called a couple of those company's and there just didn't seem to be a market for what I was looking for so it hadn't been considered.
So, what would a Breeder Feed for poultry need to be like? This is just my opinion but I would think that a breeder would want to be able to put out the same feed that would be good for the hens, roosters and chicks. Layer feeds are not good feed for roosters or chicks. A breeder feed should be formulated to provide the nutrition for longevity, making healthy chicks, and the shells strong enough but not so hard as to make hatching too difficult. I've had chicks that died in the shell for more reasons but some, I felt, were just unable to crack a shell that was as hard as a rock at hatching. When I stopped feeding layer mix, I noticed the shells were not fragile or thin "but" by the hatch date, they were fairly easy to break and thinned and almost crumbly. That seemed so much more "right" to me for hatching chicks. It was like they thinned when needed for the chicks to be able to pip right out easily, without over tiring them and once pipped, they popped out quicker and cleaner. Not stuck to the shell. I do have free choice oyster shell and free choice granite grit for them so they're taking what they need, not force fed the added calcium in the feed now.
Another thing I found was there are vitamins and minerals you can buy to add to the feed. Why would you need that with a complete feed? Why not feed a complete feed to breeders that had the nutrition, vitamins and minerals to support a long, productive life? I am also a breeder that promotes a rest period in the late fall to early winter for my flock. I recognized that in the late fall, there would be a natural drop in egg production and molt then no eggs for a while. I have used that time to inspect for and treat to get rid of and prevent internal and external parasites. If they're not laying anyway, there are no eggs to dispose of and I do it well after the molt so not to affect feathering back in. I drop the feed "quality in early fall to basically get them to go into the rest period and molt about the same time and it works. I also use this time to review my flock and begin culling as needed but not because of age. I think it's awful to work hard to produce really good birds that are only useful for a short period of time. I don't cull for age for that reason and work to keep my flock productive into their later years. I don't know how you could do any line breeding to improve if you can't keep them healthy past 3 or 4 yrs. I cull to make room for the better chicks that I hatched that year to replace less desired traits.
I haven't just been reading other forums and reviews but studies done at universities and other scientific studies. There is a lot talked about as far as this subject but I just don't see it making it to the feed companies. So, I contacted Purina on their website. Their farm where they do most of their studies isn't that far from me. I explained to them what I would like to see in a breeder feed, I hope they respond to me. At this time, they only have grower and layer mixes for poultry. I've been feeding their Purina Pigeon feed, they are small round pellets in 2 colors that you can mix to make the level of protein you want at the time you're feeding. It's the Gold and the Green Nutriblend. I started using it because it was recommended to me for my tiny Serama's. I've have been hatching nice Big chicks that are robust and healthy feeding this way and it won't "fix" any genetic faults so breeding for better genetics is always up front there too but I think that Purina can do better for us "Breeders" who work to hatch rather than just table eggs.
I'm not sure if it would help to encourage them or not but if there are other breeders here who also feel as I do about the feeds available for poultry, but maybe if other breeders would also contact Purina to request they develop a breeder formula, they might take more interest.
Generally, I figure our flocks have different requirements for feed/nutrition depending on many things such as our location, time of year, age of that we are feeding them, sex and so on. I had a friend who had Boer Goats a few years ago and she spent $1500 for a nutritionist of some sort to come to her farm and he did soil testing, forage testing, tests of all sorts on her goats and who know what else, and he developed a specialized feed for only her goats that was basically a recipe that her feed mill mixed for her that was "top secret". Sounded a little over the top to me but this woman was producing work grand champions and selling some of her top goats for as high as $25,000. No kidding!
I am always considering nutrition and figure my chickens needs change with the seasons, where they are with breeding and laying and so forth and something has always been on my mind and it really struck home one day when I was talking to my son Matt and he said something that was one of those Ah Ha! moments. He has a degree in Agriculture and doesn't have a whole lot of interest in poultry but did say something to me that struck a nerve. I had commented that feeding layer feed didn't seem to really make them lay or lay better. His comment was "Mom, that feed is for commercial layers to give them the minimum nutrition they need aimed at laying a lot of hard shelled eggs that won't crack on the way to the store. They don't expect those battery layers to lay for more than a couple of years either so the nutrition is sometimes hard on their livers and they don't live long past the 2 yrs."
Well Hello! That got me to thinking and I've searched online for breeder feed and I really didn't find anything that was specifically made for breeder chickens. Oddly, I did find a few companies that actually make a "breeder" feed for turkeys and pheasants. I called a couple of those company's and there just didn't seem to be a market for what I was looking for so it hadn't been considered.
So, what would a Breeder Feed for poultry need to be like? This is just my opinion but I would think that a breeder would want to be able to put out the same feed that would be good for the hens, roosters and chicks. Layer feeds are not good feed for roosters or chicks. A breeder feed should be formulated to provide the nutrition for longevity, making healthy chicks, and the shells strong enough but not so hard as to make hatching too difficult. I've had chicks that died in the shell for more reasons but some, I felt, were just unable to crack a shell that was as hard as a rock at hatching. When I stopped feeding layer mix, I noticed the shells were not fragile or thin "but" by the hatch date, they were fairly easy to break and thinned and almost crumbly. That seemed so much more "right" to me for hatching chicks. It was like they thinned when needed for the chicks to be able to pip right out easily, without over tiring them and once pipped, they popped out quicker and cleaner. Not stuck to the shell. I do have free choice oyster shell and free choice granite grit for them so they're taking what they need, not force fed the added calcium in the feed now.
Another thing I found was there are vitamins and minerals you can buy to add to the feed. Why would you need that with a complete feed? Why not feed a complete feed to breeders that had the nutrition, vitamins and minerals to support a long, productive life? I am also a breeder that promotes a rest period in the late fall to early winter for my flock. I recognized that in the late fall, there would be a natural drop in egg production and molt then no eggs for a while. I have used that time to inspect for and treat to get rid of and prevent internal and external parasites. If they're not laying anyway, there are no eggs to dispose of and I do it well after the molt so not to affect feathering back in. I drop the feed "quality in early fall to basically get them to go into the rest period and molt about the same time and it works. I also use this time to review my flock and begin culling as needed but not because of age. I think it's awful to work hard to produce really good birds that are only useful for a short period of time. I don't cull for age for that reason and work to keep my flock productive into their later years. I don't know how you could do any line breeding to improve if you can't keep them healthy past 3 or 4 yrs. I cull to make room for the better chicks that I hatched that year to replace less desired traits.
I haven't just been reading other forums and reviews but studies done at universities and other scientific studies. There is a lot talked about as far as this subject but I just don't see it making it to the feed companies. So, I contacted Purina on their website. Their farm where they do most of their studies isn't that far from me. I explained to them what I would like to see in a breeder feed, I hope they respond to me. At this time, they only have grower and layer mixes for poultry. I've been feeding their Purina Pigeon feed, they are small round pellets in 2 colors that you can mix to make the level of protein you want at the time you're feeding. It's the Gold and the Green Nutriblend. I started using it because it was recommended to me for my tiny Serama's. I've have been hatching nice Big chicks that are robust and healthy feeding this way and it won't "fix" any genetic faults so breeding for better genetics is always up front there too but I think that Purina can do better for us "Breeders" who work to hatch rather than just table eggs.
I'm not sure if it would help to encourage them or not but if there are other breeders here who also feel as I do about the feeds available for poultry, but maybe if other breeders would also contact Purina to request they develop a breeder formula, they might take more interest.
Interesting thoughts Cathy and I agree. I have stopped feeding my birds commercial feed for about 7 months now. I had many reasons to evaluate what I was feeding my birds and it was driven in part by money concerns. The cost of a 50lb back of purina layer feed here at our local TSC is $17.00 a bag. I have well over 100 araucana and was spending upwards of $400.00 a month on chicken feed. I don't mind spending the money if it is exactly what they need, however I also wanted to look at a more natural way of feeding them. As we all know last year the world was supposed to end ( LOL), while I did not believe that would happen, all the hype and hysteria over the coming end got me to thinking about what would happen in the case of a localized disaster. I live in a little valley with only a few ways in and out and the road south is where all the suppliers are. It wouldn't take much more than a wild fire or an accident blocking the main road south to make it difficult to get feed for the animals here. I also have dreams of being self sustaining one day. So with all these thoughts in mind, I too researched poultry feed.
While I do not have a perfect solution, I have come up with a workable feed for myself. In the warmer months when possible I sprout oats, barley, red wheat, milo and sunflower seed. When it is too cold to sprout them, usually November thru March, I soak them overnight. To this mix whether soaked and drained or sprouted, I add flax seed, fish meal powder, cayenne, dried cranberries, and chopped peanuts. I always have a bin of oyster shell in each pen. I feel it shouldn't be in the food because only the hens need it and they will take what they need when they need it.
I do not have a real rhyme or reason at this point for the ingredients I have chosen, with a few exceptions. The grains are all easily available and I buy in bulk. The peanuts are high protein and the birds love them. The cranberries are a good circulatory system booster and help with blood flow to the brain, the cayenne, well I figured it wouldn't hurt. The flax seed is excellent for eggs, feather development, and overall health. The fish meal is for animal protein and very important because chickens are not vegetarians so why do people insist on feeding them a vegetarian based diet.
So now for cost. An 80lb bag of whole grain costs about $17.00 so already I am getting 30lbs for free. I go thru about 6 bags a month. The other stuff does add to the cost, so 5 lbs of peanuts per 80lb of grain is $8.00. flax seed is about $.50 lb and I use about 5lbs per month. The fish meal is about $2.00 lb and I use about 5lbs per month. Cranberries and cayenne I get in bulk and costs about $20.00 a month.
Now when you soak the grain it gains 1/3 it weight in water. So now I have a little over 100lbs per bag. When sprouted, by the 3rd day it has doubled in size so I am getting 160lbs per bag. By sprouting or soaking the grain you are increasing the digestibility of the grain and increasing the nutritional value of it.
I have also noticed that my chickens eat less, I believe this is because they are digesting more of the available nutrition in the feed. With commercial layer feeds my chickens always acted hungry and almost frantic about it. It was difficult to keep enough food in front of them. Now there is always food left in the bowl after their initial feeding frenzy for them to munch on thru the day. By the time they go to bed the bowl is empty.
Now I realize that my feed is still not self sustaining, however, it has a much longer shelf life when stored properly than commercial layer feed. I have the ability to store huge quantities of it. I can always sow a field of it if need be. It is healthier and more nutritious than commercial layer feed. My birds love it and look better. I know what is going into their food and therefor going into the eggs my family is eating. This spring will be interesting to see if I have healthier chicks also.
Well those are my thoughts on how I approach feeding my flock.
Lanae
While I do not have a perfect solution, I have come up with a workable feed for myself. In the warmer months when possible I sprout oats, barley, red wheat, milo and sunflower seed. When it is too cold to sprout them, usually November thru March, I soak them overnight. To this mix whether soaked and drained or sprouted, I add flax seed, fish meal powder, cayenne, dried cranberries, and chopped peanuts. I always have a bin of oyster shell in each pen. I feel it shouldn't be in the food because only the hens need it and they will take what they need when they need it.
I do not have a real rhyme or reason at this point for the ingredients I have chosen, with a few exceptions. The grains are all easily available and I buy in bulk. The peanuts are high protein and the birds love them. The cranberries are a good circulatory system booster and help with blood flow to the brain, the cayenne, well I figured it wouldn't hurt. The flax seed is excellent for eggs, feather development, and overall health. The fish meal is for animal protein and very important because chickens are not vegetarians so why do people insist on feeding them a vegetarian based diet.
So now for cost. An 80lb bag of whole grain costs about $17.00 so already I am getting 30lbs for free. I go thru about 6 bags a month. The other stuff does add to the cost, so 5 lbs of peanuts per 80lb of grain is $8.00. flax seed is about $.50 lb and I use about 5lbs per month. The fish meal is about $2.00 lb and I use about 5lbs per month. Cranberries and cayenne I get in bulk and costs about $20.00 a month.
Now when you soak the grain it gains 1/3 it weight in water. So now I have a little over 100lbs per bag. When sprouted, by the 3rd day it has doubled in size so I am getting 160lbs per bag. By sprouting or soaking the grain you are increasing the digestibility of the grain and increasing the nutritional value of it.
I have also noticed that my chickens eat less, I believe this is because they are digesting more of the available nutrition in the feed. With commercial layer feeds my chickens always acted hungry and almost frantic about it. It was difficult to keep enough food in front of them. Now there is always food left in the bowl after their initial feeding frenzy for them to munch on thru the day. By the time they go to bed the bowl is empty.
Now I realize that my feed is still not self sustaining, however, it has a much longer shelf life when stored properly than commercial layer feed. I have the ability to store huge quantities of it. I can always sow a field of it if need be. It is healthier and more nutritious than commercial layer feed. My birds love it and look better. I know what is going into their food and therefor going into the eggs my family is eating. This spring will be interesting to see if I have healthier chicks also.
Well those are my thoughts on how I approach feeding my flock.
Lanae
Very good! I was considering the flax since I always have it on hand for my horses but there were some concerns when I did a quick search on feeding flax to poultry. It sounds like a little is okay but a lot can actually decrease egg production and size so take care in the amount. Also, the issue of cyanide has always been a concern but soaking them then drying them supposedly eliminates that issue.
http://animalscience.ucdavis.edu/avian/pfs21.htm
http://www.poultryscience.org/ps/paperpdfs/03/p0330388.pdf
https://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/poultry/bba01s04.html
I tried to avoid opinions on feeding it and stuck with the studies that were more in line with what I was wanting to know. I also keep rice bran on hand for my Arabian mare to keep her weight up and did a search on it for poultry feed but there were more cons than pro's so that's out. No one around here carries fish meal that I've found but the cat fish food is cheap, very high protein and in abundance around here and they eat it up. I just tried one 50 pound bag and they ate it up fine but I need to review the ingredients and nutrition more to see how much might be needed. I'd kind of prefer that a company like Purina would develop a feed that covers all of it but we'll see. Have you looked into the vitamin and mineral supplements for poultry?
Also, I haven't used it for my poultry but it saved my horses the year of the ice storm. Hay that year was poor quality, scarce and high dollar plus several weeks of below zero temps, the ice itself, all that stress and the animals in our area were really suffering through it .... all but mine. I managed with very little hay, and fed a lot of Beet pulp (soaked) with alfalfa pellets mixed in once the beet pulp was soaked and fluffy and added rice bran and flax seed meal to make that nasty looking hay just for bulk and something to keep them happy to chew. But the real kicker was when I started adding a yeast, probiotics, from Western Yeast Company. They just Bloomed! Fat and happy the rest of the winter with a lot less feed.
http://www.westernyeast.com/
You should read up on it. I should have already been adding this to my feed but didn't think about it again till recently. I have to order it online. Check it out, they have plenty of studies on the results for many farm animal use, including poultry.
Cathy
Just candled 28 Araucana eggs that I had for sale that did not sell. Set the eggs on Jan. 18Th. When I candled them 24 out of 28 were fertile. Not too bad for Araucana eggs. And just think someone could have purchased these eggs.
Hope you have lots of gorgeous chickies hatching soon
Congrats on the great fertility
Cathy
That's great! Do you clip your birds? I'd like to start setting Araucana eggs as soon as the weather is reasonable and I get a broody (I have one hen already thinking about it despite the current 13 degrees). I was going to wait until mid-February or so to clip, but it would be great if I didn't have to at all.
Kirsten
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