Araucanas before the APA?

[amazondoc]

Quote:
But there's no reason you need to do that. Go back and read my post again. In the course of conversation, you can simply mention how much has changed in the however-many-years, and how the breeds have developed and differentiated. A person doesn't "have" to call anything any certain name -- you simply educate people, as gently as possible, about what is now accepted standard nomenclature.

Now, as for the hatcheries and people selling birds, that's a different matter. I wish someone WOULD force them to use the correct labels, because that's a matter of false advertising. To refer back to the greyhound example -- if those people had been raising racing greyhounds for 40 years but they were selling them as AKC greyhounds, then somebody SHOULD take them to task.

 

[GardeNerd]

Quote:
But that is the thing, AKC is a label set by that organization. Cubs like those for Ameraucana breeders and organizations like the APA that aren't necessarily governing bodies of anything other than their own clubs and shows generally can not regulate others products, especially if they were selling them before the standards were set by the other group.

I don't say my Golden Retriever is AKC registered. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but I could careless. I don't know he came from the SPCA. He looks like a Golden Ret. and acts like one, but I don't say he is AKC registered. To folks that it is important, they can say that or say they have papers. They go out to breeders to get AKC, not the SPCA. To the rest of us, its just a Golden Retriever. The SPCA doesn't add AKC when they put a dog up for adoption ($150.+) but they label it a Golden Retriever if it looks a bit like one. We are happy and so is the dog. Over time, Americans that the labels and standards of perfection in dogs are important to have added AKC registered to their descriptions.

Folks that is important to, they maybe could say instead APA or Ameraucana Club "approved" or "registered" or "recognized" or "standard" for their birds and eggs, but if the APA has no authority over hatcheries and their birds, why get upset at what others outside of their groups, clubs, and breeders call their chickens.

BYC IS called Backyard Chickens Forum. Not Breeders or Farmers or APA Forum. The name brings in newbies and small flock keepers mainly looking to keep a few chickens in Suburbia.

But please don't tell people they have mutts. It is a negative term most people associate with a random mating of dogs. I sure wouldn't do that to my older neighbor, why do it to Newbies here at BYC. Unless someone had a question specifically about breeding for Show Quality or Showing, let them call their birds what they want without pointing out their error. Otherwise, you might be putting off someone who would have been a great asset to BYC and they may not come back.

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
I don't know the legalities here, but legality is not really the point. Accepted standard nomenclature and false advertisement are the points. And it is no more accepted or accurate to call an ameraucana an araucana than it is to call a whippet a greyhound. Probably the main difference is that whippets have been in this country longer than araucanas or ameraucanas have.

Folks that is important to, they maybe could say instead APA or Ameraucana Club "approved" or "registered" or "recognized" or "standard" for their birds and eggs, but if the APA has no authority over hatcheries and their birds, why get upset at what others outside of their groups, clubs, and breeders call their chickens.

Many people DO say something like "breeding to APA standards" or true araucana" (see my signature) when talking about these breeds. But it is important to try to get everyone on the same page, so that we all know what we are referring to when we say a given word. If I called a color "red" and you called that same color "green", we would get very confused!

But please don't tell people they have mutts. It is a negative term most people associate with a random mating of dogs.

I have a mutt, and I sure don't feel negatively about him. And many EEs **are** mutts -- they are frequently interbred with other breeds.

I sure wouldn't do that to my older neighbor, why do it to Newbies here at BYC. Unless someone had a question specifically about breeding for Show Quality or Showing, let them call their birds what they want without pointing out their error. Otherwise, you might be putting off someone who would have been a great asset to BYC and they may not come back.

If somebody is put off by education, then they will NEVER be a "great asset" here. I agree that education should be done as tactfully as possible, but it's still important to educate.​

 

[CityChicker]

So, basically if someone doesn't agree with your stance then they are "put off" by education? I am sorry- that is absurd. The statement that they will then "NEVER be a 'great asset' here" is hateful and rude. ***NEWSFLASH- NOT EVERYONE HAS TO AGREE WITH YOU! I am now officially leaving the Araucana thread.

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
Nope. That isn't at all what I said.

The proper usage of the term "araucana" is not a "stance", it's a matter of nomenclature officially recognized by the APA.

The proper usage of the term "ameraucana" is not a "stance", it's also a matter of nomenclature officially recognized by the APA.

It doesn't matter whether somebody "agrees" with that nomenclature, or not. Those are the officially recognized terms.

If we can't learn to use standard names when speaking with each other, then we can't communicate clearly. And if we can't communicate clearly, then trying to communicate at all is pretty much a waste of time.

 

[klf73]

I have bit my tongue just because these arguments never get us anywhere

. The original poster found her solution

I think everyone should just agree to disagree
I have True Araucana and I do tell people that tell me they have araucana(that are ee's) the difference. I show them pics. I don't care what anyone calls their chickens unless they are selling them. If you sell me araucana eggs and I hatch EE's you bet your bippy I want my money back and you can take your chicks. I think misleading people is wrong and calling them something they are not just perpetuates the deceit and doesn't benefit anyone except for the person selling them......
and that's my 2 cents

 

[pocopoyo]

Here's my question.
Currently Seramas do not have a color standard. They are judged by size and type. They are fantastic small chickens. There is movement to get some colors (white, black, etc) accepted into the APA standard. If white and black Seramas get accepted into the standard, do the rest of the, non standard color, serama's become mutts?

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
NO.

This is where I differ with some of the Ameraucana folks.

There are many breeds which have color varieties that are not APA accepted. Araucanas, for instance. These birds can be shown in "AOV" (Any Other Variety) classes. They are not mutts.

HOWEVER -- I can understand why some of the Ameraucana folks ARE so sensitive. There is SO much confusion and false advertisement, and it's SO widespread, that the serious APA breeders understandably get a bit defensive from time to time.

That's actually another reason why we need to push education and accuracy in labeling. The more folks we can educate, the more the serious breeders can relax, and the less b*tching back and forth there will be.