Are these chicks both Olive Eggers?

[StepfordCuckoos]

Chick 2 looks just like our EE did as a chick! We got them from TSC.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

There is no way knowing if they are Olive Eggers if you got them from TSC, and many chick breeds and hybrids have wild type (partridge) patterning.

TSC often mixes their bins, so they don't look particularly EE either other than chick 1 has a pea comb. Chick 2 may be a Welsummer, with single comb and very Welsummer looking.

I doubt TSC carries olive eggers. Usually that is more of a designer project by breeders.

LofMc

 

[StepfordCuckoos]

There is no way knowing if they are Olive Eggers if you got them from TSC, and many chick breeds and hybrids have wild type (partridge) patterning.

TSC often mixes their bins, so they don't look particularly EE either other than chick 1 has a pea comb. Chick 2 may be a Welsummer, with single comb and very Welsummer looking.

I doubt TSC carries olive eggers. Usually that is more of a designer project by breeders.

LofMc

The sign on the bin said Olive Eggers and there were only two left in the bin, so we got both of them. What breed do you think Chick 1 is most likely to be?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Chick 1 has a pea comb, so could come from anything, but could be a line of Easter Egger as the pea comb trait could be a left over from Ameraucana parentage somewhere back.

Large hatcheries have greatly muddied the waters with "olive eggers" and "easter eggers" and the fictional breed "Americana."

Traditionally, Easter Egger was a term for the hybrid of an Ameraucana (muff, pea comb, blue shell genes) with any other kind of bird to save on costs. The result was a bird that would lay blue eggs (receiving 1 dominant blue shell gene), muffed, green leg, pea combed.

However the hatcheries have bred lines of EEs without reinvesting in the more expensive pure Ameraucana stock now such that they look pretty much like anything at it is simply their word that they have something of a blue gene back in the line. EEs aren't bad, but they are a hybrid ( a mix, a mutt) that if you don't carefully control your line, the much desired blue shell gene is easily bred out. Since they can look like anything now (rather than the closely related Ameraucana mixes with muff, green legs, pea comb), it is nearly impossible to look at the chick and guess at any underlying genetics. The good news that if Ameraucana was in the parentage, the blue shell gene often follows the pea comb as they are located close on the gene thread.

Now mix in the question of the olive egg. An olive egger is another hybrid breeding a blue shell gene parent (ideally pure for blue shell to ensure passage to offspring but can be a any carrying blue such as an EE) to a dark brown laying line (such as Welsummer, Barnevelder, Marans, Penedesenca). The problem with this pairing is that while it is fairly easy to ensure the blue shell gene passes, it is very difficult to ensure the dark brown genes pass as there are 13 genes responsible for the dark brown. It requires dark brown wash (hemoglobin) over blue shell to form the desired shades of olive green. Dark brown lines are notorious for producing a lot of shades that aren't dark brown in their progeny. (I may get 1/3 of it passing by F2, or 2nd generation).

Only a little brown wash and you get light green, the common type of most EEs. No brown wash and you get blue tones (such as Ameraucana and Cream Legbar).

So to say they are "Olive Eggers" is something of a misnomer as that is not a breed. It would be a statement that this bird will lay olive eggs. It means that hopefully the breeding program monitored the line well enough to keep both the blue shell gene and all brown genetics together enough to produce the classic olive egg. In order to ensure that, they would directly breed a pure Ameraucana or Cream Legbar (the 2 most common blue shell layers) to one of the dark brown layers, which often gives tale tail signs of muff/green legs/peacomb if Ameraucana or crest if CL. First generation hybrids are fairly easy to tell as they retain some of the parent traits. However breeding EEs to another line obscures pretty much everything so you have to somehow guess your genetics.

It's taken me 5 years to get a decent line of olive eggers, but I'm always one generation from it falling apart if I lose the right parents or don't watch closely for my results.

All that to say that TSC is notorious for getting their signs and chicks wrong. There is no classic Olive Egger breed, it is a mix, a mutt, hopefully carefully chosen to produce a result, an olive egg.

So hopefully you'll have a hen that lays olive eggs if TSC bought from a hatchery that was keeping control on its lines rather than just cashing in on a popular fad.

But there is no way to look at that chick and declare that. Sorry.

If you are really concerned about getting olive eggs, the only way to do that is to go to a reputable breeder. It is still a gamble, as genetics are something of a toss for the brown genes, but your likelihood is much better than most hatcheries and feed stores.

Cute chicks. Hope they are hens that lay lots of eggs, which is what the fun is really about.

LofMc

 

[StepfordCuckoos]

Chick 1 has a pea comb, so could come from anything, but could be a line of Easter Egger as the pea comb trait could be a left over from Ameraucana parentage somewhere back.

Large hatcheries have greatly muddied the waters with "olive eggers" and "easter eggers" and the fictional breed "Americana."

Traditionally, Easter Egger was a term for the hybrid of an Ameraucana (muff, pea comb, blue shell genes) with any other kind of bird to save on costs. The result was a bird that would lay blue eggs (receiving 1 dominant blue shell gene), muffed, green leg, pea combed.

However the hatcheries have bred lines of EEs without reinvesting in the more expensive pure Ameraucana stock now such that they look pretty much like anything at it is simply their word that they have something of a blue gene back in the line. EEs aren't bad, but they are a hybrid ( a mix, a mutt) that if you don't carefully control your line, the much desired blue shell gene is easily bred out. Since they can look like anything now (rather than the closely related Ameraucana mixes with muff, green legs, pea comb), it is nearly impossible to look at the chick and guess at any underlying genetics. The good news that if Ameraucana was in the parentage, the blue shell gene often follows the pea comb as they are located close on the gene thread.

Now mix in the question of the olive egg. An olive egger is another hybrid breeding a blue shell gene parent (ideally pure for blue shell to ensure passage to offspring but can be a any carrying blue such as an EE) to a dark brown laying line (such as Welsummer, Barnevelder, Marans, Penedesenca). The problem with this pairing is that while it is fairly easy to ensure the blue shell gene passes, it is very difficult to ensure the dark brown genes pass as there are 13 genes responsible for the dark brown. It requires dark brown wash (hemoglobin) over blue shell to form the desired shades of olive green. Dark brown lines are notorious for producing a lot of shades that aren't dark brown in their progeny. (I may get 1/3 of it passing by F2, or 2nd generation).

Only a little brown wash and you get light green, the common type of most EEs. No brown wash and you get blue tones (such as Ameraucana and Cream Legbar).

So to say they are "Olive Eggers" is something of a misnomer as that is not a breed. It would be a statement that this bird will lay olive eggs. It means that hopefully the breeding program monitored the line well enough to keep both the blue shell gene and all brown genetics together enough to produce the classic olive egg. In order to ensure that, they would directly breed a pure Ameraucana or Cream Legbar (the 2 most common blue shell layers) to one of the dark brown layers, which often gives tale tail signs of muff/green legs/peacomb if Ameraucana or crest if CL. First generation hybrids are fairly easy to tell as they retain some of the parent traits. However breeding EEs to another line obscures pretty much everything so you have to somehow guess your genetics.

It's taken me 5 years to get a decent line of olive eggers, but I'm always one generation from it falling apart if I lose the right parents or don't watch closely for my results.

All that to say that TSC is notorious for getting their signs and chicks wrong. There is no classic Olive Egger breed, it is a mix, a mutt, hopefully carefully chosen to produce a result, an olive egg.

So hopefully you'll have a hen that lays olive eggs if TSC bought from a hatchery that was keeping control on its lines rather than just cashing in on a popular fad.

But there is no way to look at that chick and declare that. Sorry.

If you are really concerned about getting olive eggs, the only way to do that is to go to a reputable breeder. It is still a gamble, as genetics are something of a toss for the brown genes, but your likelihood is much better than most hatcheries and feed stores.

Cute chicks. Hope they are hens that lay lots of eggs, which is what the fun is really about.

LofMc

Wow, thank you. That was very in depth!!

We aren't too worried about the color of their eggs ( though we'd prefer non-white eggs because they're prettier )(shallow, I know lol). We didn't even intend on getting chicks last night, but when we saw the sign for Olive Eggers we got excited and decided to nab the last two they had in the bin (they were going to let us just buy the two but we also picked up two Isa browns they had in the tub next to them. When we ordered our last group from a hatchery (Meyer), we really did want Oliver Eggers but they were sold out at the time.

We ended up getting > 1 Lav. Orpington (Pixel), 1 Black Andalusian Roo (Lu), 1 RR (Miriam), 1 Partridge Penedesenca (Sweetie), 1 W.Maran (Sunshine), 1 Frost White Legbar (Frost), 1 Cream Legbar (Heatmor), 1 Buff Laced Polish (Owl)

Our Andalusian turned out to be a rooster, but all of the others are most definitely hens. And they also seem to be the breed we paid for. The Black Andalusian roo we ended up getting is absolutely gorgeous, but I've looked for ones like him and can't seem to find any so I'm not sure if he's even an Andalusian.

Again, thank you for your in depth response! Fingers crossed at least one of them will lay olive colored eggs, but if not then no big deal!!