are you using a non-medicated starter?

[PunkinPeep]

I am so happy you asked this question.

I live in the "soupy south," as SpeckledHen called it. And i have used medicated feed (in the past) for every group of chickens coming through.....and every group of medicated chickens came down with coccidiosis and had to be medicated anyway. So i started reading everything i could find on coccidiosis in chickens, here on BYC, more professional articles and studies - whatever i could find on the web. I wanted to really understand (as much as my not-a-scientist mind could understand) how coccidiosis really works.

I also talked with SpeckledHen, who always has good, educated things to say to back up her opinions, and i decided to try an experiment.

The previous groups of chicks who came through always got sick about 2 weeks after hitting the ground, and that lined up with what i read about the time it usually takes to overwhelm a chick's system.

But it has seemed that the older a chicken is when she is exposed, the worse it hits her.

So with my most recent addition, i stopped feeding medicated feed. I had to switch to game bird grower to get something without amprolium, but i'm o.k. with that. (props to those of you who are grinding your own feed - awesome!)

In addition to feeding non-medicated feed, while the chicks were still in the brooder, i started giving them small amounts of the soil that my flock regularly poops in - in their brooder, so they could scratch through it and get exposed asap. Also, on the very first sunny warm day, i put them all on the ground in the run and let them "free range." Then, as soon as they were feathered in - and as long as it hasn't been raining - i started letting them run the run all day every day. They've been doing that virtually every day for about a month, and i have - for the first time ever - had no outbreak of coccidiosis.

I'm no scientist, but i think a lot of people are going about this all wrong. From what i've read, the way to protect a chick from being overwhelmed by cocci protozoa is by exposing them ASAP, just like a mama hen does.

Keeping their environment perfectly spotless and keeping them from being exposed to chicken poop - even though it seems to be the right thing to do - is what seems to be making them more vulnerable in the long run.

This is preliminary. I will want to do the same thing with several more groups of chicks - during different parts of the year - before i get on a really big soapbox about it, but this is my experience so far. I definitely don't think the medicated feed is helping anyone; i'll tell you that. And i will gladly pay extra to give them a feed without it.

Even the game bird grower i've been feeding has antibiotics (not amprolium - just antibiotics) in it, and i hate that too - but i talked to my feed store, and they agreed to order a different feed with actually NO MEDICATION at all in it - just for me.

They currently carry nothing that has NO medication. Then i will be happier. Since my chickens free range all day, i don't worry too much about the fact that it's manufactured. The feed i give them is meant to be just a supplement to what they get in pasture.

I think my chickens should be able to say no to drugs.

ETA: One more thing - medicated feed is meant to help the chicken build resistance to the cocci protozoa. If you are feeding medicated feed, it can't do its job unless you expose your chicks to the protozoa - meaning the soil and the poop. If you don't expose them, the medication can do NOTHING to benefit your chicken. I know this flies in the face of a lot of things we've been told, but when you start to understand how cocci works, i think you'll agree with me.

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
Big difference between brooder raised chicks & hen raised chicks. Apples & oranges really. Chicks raised on the ground by a hen will never get Cocci, chicks raised in a brooder & later put on the ground usually will unless treated with a Coccidiostat.

 

[speckledhen]

Big difference between brooder raised chicks & hen raised chicks. Apples & oranges really.

Yes, that's exactly what I said, if you read my previous post and this last one you quoted. And it's completely true. Some say sprinkle dirt from their future pen into the brooder from day one and that will help them develop immunity early. I tried that but due to our very rainy wet winter, this batch got it anyway. Been wishing for a broody for a couple months now, but my previous ones are not volunteering.​

 

[WoodlandWoman]

I've raised chicks in different ways, in different years. I haven't had a problem, but I don't know if I'm just lucky, it isn't a big problem where I am, I just happened to do a combination of things that worked or what.

I started out using medicated chick starter, because that's what was available back then and what everyone used. I also kept the chicks confined longer. Later I fed unmedicated feeds and I also started pasturing really young chicks in good weather. When they're really young, they might only be out for a short time. Maybe that's inoculating them, without overwhelming them. I don't know.

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
Yes, that's exactly what I said, if you read my previous post and this last one you quoted. And it's completely true. Some say sprinkle dirt from their future pen into the brooder from day one and that will help them develop immunity early. I tried that but due to our very rainy wet winter, this batch got it anyway. Been wishing for a broody for a couple months now, but my previous ones are not volunteering.

I was agreeing with you.
I'm in the same boat you are. Coccidiosis is very prevalent here so medicated feed alone doesn't do it for me so I stopped using it. When the growing birds leave the brooder I use 1/2 strength Corid for a week. That allows them to pick up Cocci but it keeps in under control while they develop an immunity. A Vet friend does the same thing but he prefers Sulmet.

 

[speckledhen]

Quote:
Yes, that's exactly what I said, if you read my previous post and this last one you quoted. And it's completely true. Some say sprinkle dirt from their future pen into the brooder from day one and that will help them develop immunity early. I tried that but due to our very rainy wet winter, this batch got it anyway. Been wishing for a broody for a couple months now, but my previous ones are not volunteering.

I was agreeing with you.
I'm in the same boat you are. Coccidiosis is very prevalent here so medicated feed alone doesn't do it for me so I stopped using it. When the growing birds leave the brooder I use 1/2 strength Corid for a week. That allows them to pick up Cocci but it keeps in under control while they develop an immunity. A Vet friend does the same thing but he prefers Sulmet.

Sometimes, Bill, I'm not sure if you're agreeing or correcting me, LOL. I've started doing the same thing with Corid when mine hit the ground. It's a royal pain! Tried Sulmet early on when my first batch got it and it just didn't do the job, had to retreat twice--there is one type of cocci that it doesn't really do much for and I think I probably have that type in my soil. Anyway, folks keep saying keep a clean brooder/grow out coop, but that has no effect here. I dare say that my grow-out coop is tons cleaner than many folks', even after numerous chick batches. It's just one of those facts of life. See, Bill, you and I can agree on something!

 

[midwife mama]

Thank you for this, and all the other helpful replies! There is so much to learn on the subject, I feel like I'm researching vaccines for my kids (which also is a never ending pursuit!).

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[OHhappychicks]

Thank you for this post! how old is to old to expose them to the ground in my pen? I have 1-1/2 wk to I think 3-4 wk old chicks I purchased at tsc. They are on non-med feed. I just went out and put a little of the soil in their brooder. Was that ok to do? I like the idea of exposing them early. I have never heard this. It makes sense. Mama hens and baby chicks are out in the open from day 1 and are ok. Can I put my younger ones out on the warm days or should I wait until they are a little older. Thank you for this website! It has helped me immensely!

 

[Beekissed]

I feed nonmedicated starter and feeds. I've never had a chick death or illness at my place and I let my chicks mix with the flock as soon as they are well fledged. No vaccines either.

To put all the nutritional discussion in perspective, my granny always used cornmeal for her chicks and nothing else. Her laying flock got whole corn that we took right off the cob. They were thrifty, healthy and lived long and layed well....so all the nutritional mumbo jumbo can be taken with a grain of salt. I agree that chickens would do better on a mix of whole grains and greens but I wouldn't over think all the details. Just enjoy your chickens and learn what they do well on.

 

[PunkinPeep]

Quote:
If i can safely put them out (keeping them safe from predators, bigger chickens, and bad weather) i will put them out on day 2 or 3. If it is warm enough outside, then it is great to put them outside. Just try to think like a mama hen.

Soil in the brooder is great too - especially if your weather is too cool for them to safely play outside. I try to specifically make sure it is soil that the older chickens regularly poop in.

I'm very happy this thread was helpful to you.